12/8/12:  News just in.  I uploaded this mix to Soundcloud for comparison to Soundclick.  I was wondering if anyone besides Beagle and Danny Danzi hear the clicks that they hear on their systems.  However, if you're getting tired of the song, disregard.  My heartiest thanks to all!!

The Soundcloud version can be found in post #1.

Lynn


First of all, I want to thank both of you for taking the time to analyze this for me.  Danny, I'm impressed that you went to the trouble of creating these clips for my benefit.  I hear the crackles you're talking about when you isolate them in the mix.  Now, I just want to know why they are present.  Assume for a minute that I paid attention to gain staging throughout the recording process, even  reduced the compression and limiting throughout, and yet there they are.  This is only the second mix that I encoded as a 320 kbs mp3 to Soundclick.  Could there be a problem there?  Don't worry, I'm not going to assume that the problem isn't in my original tracks, therefore, I will be going over each individual track with a fine toothed comb anyway.  Again, thanks so much for your time and effort.

Shad, I always appreciate your observations and take them seriously.  It seems that there's something of difference in the way you hear this, and the way Danny hears it.  Somewhere in the middle must be the answer.  Well, that gives me something to do this weekend between KU basketball and Chiefs football.  You guys are great, and you have helped me immensely in spite of seemingly contradictory statements.  Maybe, you're both in agreement after all, and it's my perception that is skewed.  I hope you both can be patient for a day or two, and I'll give this my undivided attention.

Danny Danzi

Danny, thank you for your sage suggestions. Between you and Bitflipper, I got a handle on the transients of Superior Drummer. I did cut the limiting in half and pulled down the upper mids on the mastering EQ, which helped a lot. As for the clicking on the guitar, I just don't hear it on my system. The guitar track in X2 is about -8db, so it's not coming from there. The mp3 is encoded at 320 kbs, so I don't know if anything is getting lost in translation within Soundclick. I do know what you mean, though. I've learned the hard way about gain staging and digital overload. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I'll be listening for this. If anyone else hears this, please let me know!

Hi Lynn,

So sorry if I'm driving you crazy with this. It's definitely a tough one to pinpoint especially if you can't hear it. I've done a little something which I hope you don't mind. I'm not one that likes to mention something and not support what I'm hearing as you know, so I took the liberty to hone in on this for you so (even if you can't fix it) you can at least hear what I'm hearing on this end.

I've created two examples for you.

1. This one, I have removed all your center fields which leaves us with just the sides of your song. You should be able to hear the little clicks/crackles a bit easier here. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/LongMayYouLiveDanny.mp3

2. Next, I've removed the clicks/crackles totally to where I'm using as little of my click/crackle remover as possible. This is what we get when we remove the song completely and allow the remover to show us what IT is actually removing. What you hear on this is what I literally hear on your file when listening to it normally. It's nothing bad really and the music masks it rather well, but I know you don't want stuff like this in there if you can help it which is why I'm at least trying to show you how it comes across on my end. The tune and your mix is fine just as it is. Who knows, with my animal hearing, I may be the only one who can hear this...so my apologies if any of this sounds nit-picky. I honestly don't mean it to be and think the world of you. :) Here's the other:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/LongMayYouLiveDanny2.mp3

Hope this helps at least to show you what I hear over here. :)

-Danny

foxwolfen


Lynn, I am very impressed with most of this production. The vox are carved out nicely, the mids ring true, highs are tamed.

But. We have lost both energy in the lows, and crystal clarity in the highs. While the tone of the drums is present, its lacking the physical force (which is actually voltage) to move the cones and give me both a deep felt note and punch. Sadly I am just way to out of practice at the moment to give you specific advice and really delve deep into this to understand what is happening.

My instinc is compression. Compression is a tricky thing, and then throwing EQ into the pot makes for a compicated stew. But I am not confident in this. Wish I could be more help.

Hi Lynn, not a problem. Glad to help and I probably should have asked your permission and sent you a pm before just posting those files. So please accept my apology if that was out of line. I got to thinking about it and thought..."Wow, maybe I shouldn't have just took it upon myself to do that." As you know, I just sincerely want to help and sometimes I should probably ask before I do something.
 
I still hear the clicks in the new one you posted. I got my hair down right now though...lol....getting ready to go do a Van Halen tribute show...so my extra padding may be hiding some of the sound. LOL! I'm not sure where this could be coming from...maybe a plugin somewhere? I remember Bapu was using a plug one time where it was giving us this issue and he couldn't hear it no matter what we did. He killed that plug and the clicks went away, but he still never heard them.
 
As for the bass, well, here's the deal on that. Yeah, I definitely agree it could have a bit more bottom end "oomph." But as I said in my first post, some mixes that are a bit brighter gain a poppy type feel to them which is acceptable. For example, a lot of the Huey Lewis stuff had that kinda poppy sound where it really didn't push loads of low end. It's really subjective.
 
When I comment on something, I sincerely try to keep my personal bias out of the scheme of things and just look for issues or mix inconsistencies. To me, a mix like the one you have right now, would be a perfect candidate for mastering. It has a nice balance of everything and isn't pushing the envelope anywhere that makes it blatantly obvious that you need to fix something. This is where the subjective side of this field comes in and I try to keep out of that unless something hits me in a way that I feel it's worth mentioning. But yeah, you could get away with a little more say...50-60 Hz in this mix via mastering with a tight Q so it just gives us some low end "oomph" overtones. If it doesn't hit enough, you just open (or close the Q depending on how the eq you use works) Q a bit more to allow more lows to come in. It would give you a little more kick drum oomph and bring out your bass guitar a little more.
 
But this mix is really good and when you have a balance like this, it's a keeper to me. At the end of the day, most of us are happy with "better than demo" quality which you've definitely achieved here. Heck, I'm happy with "acceptable demo quality" here. LOL! Worst case scenario....if you can't find where these clicks are coming from, maybe you could send me a bundle file of the tune and I can take a look at it for you? We'd have to coordinate and see what plugs you have that I don't have first. And maybe, you can try killing one at a time, making me a little test mix (it can be the the first minute or so) and we can at least see if it's a plug issue if it;s plugs I don't have. If that fails, I can take a look at the bundle and see what the deal is. Also, take a look at your wave forms on that guitar track.
 
If you used a sim and that's a direct, clean sound, if it's spikey, that could be the issue. Quite a few guys send their clean DI into their DAW looking at their meters when they set things up, but during the actual recording, we get a bit excited and may hit something a little harder. Therefore, it may spike and if that's the case, it's in the actual recording and you won't get it out unless you:
 
a. send me the track and I'll pass it through my pop/click tools
 
b. re-record the track.
 
But we gotta find out how this is happening first and foremost. The good thing is...you can't hear it. LOL!! I say that meaning, it's ok if you call me a lunatic hahahahahahaha! If YOU heard these clicks on your end, you'd really be bummed about this. It doesn't seem like anyone else hears that other than Reece and me. (See how much you learned in one session with me Reece? Now you REALLY got animal hearing. Hahaha!) We'll get it Lynn....just don't get frustrated. I'll try to help you out if you need me. :)
 
-Danny

You're on, my friend!  I'll be more than happy to pass this on to you.  I'll PM you in a few days to deal with logistics.  It may very well be in my project file.  We shall see.  Thank you and Reece very much for your time and ears! 

Danny Danzi

Lynn


First of all, I want to thank both of you for taking the time to analyze this for me.  Danny, I'm impressed that you went to the trouble of creating these clips for my benefit.  I hear the crackles you're talking about when you isolate them in the mix.  Now, I just want to know why they are present.  Assume for a minute that I paid attention to gain staging throughout the recording process, even  reduced the compression and limiting throughout, and yet there they are.  This is only the second mix that I encoded as a 320 kbs mp3 to Soundclick.  Could there be a problem there?  Don't worry, I'm not going to assume that the problem isn't in my original tracks, therefore, I will be going over each individual track with a fine toothed comb anyway.  Again, thanks so much for your time and effort.

Shad, I always appreciate your observations and take them seriously.  It seems that there's something of difference in the way you hear this, and the way Danny hears it.  Somewhere in the middle must be the answer.  Well, that gives me something to do this weekend between KU basketball and Chiefs football.  You guys are great, and you have helped me immensely in spite of seemingly contradictory statements.  Maybe, you're both in agreement after all, and it's my perception that is skewed.  I hope you both can be patient for a day or two, and I'll give this my undivided attention.

Danny Danzi

Danny, thank you for your sage suggestions. Between you and Bitflipper, I got a handle on the transients of Superior Drummer. I did cut the limiting in half and pulled down the upper mids on the mastering EQ, which helped a lot. As for the clicking on the guitar, I just don't hear it on my system. The guitar track in X2 is about -8db, so it's not coming from there. The mp3 is encoded at 320 kbs, so I don't know if anything is getting lost in translation within Soundclick. I do know what you mean, though. I've learned the hard way about gain staging and digital overload. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I'll be listening for this. If anyone else hears this, please let me know!

Hi Lynn,

So sorry if I'm driving you crazy with this. It's definitely a tough one to pinpoint especially if you can't hear it. I've done a little something which I hope you don't mind. I'm not one that likes to mention something and not support what I'm hearing as you know, so I took the liberty to hone in on this for you so (even if you can't fix it) you can at least hear what I'm hearing on this end.

I've created two examples for you.

1. This one, I have removed all your center fields which leaves us with just the sides of your song. You should be able to hear the little clicks/crackles a bit easier here. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/LongMayYouLiveDanny.mp3

2. Next, I've removed the clicks/crackles totally to where I'm using as little of my click/crackle remover as possible. This is what we get when we remove the song completely and allow the remover to show us what IT is actually removing. What you hear on this is what I literally hear on your file when listening to it normally. It's nothing bad really and the music masks it rather well, but I know you don't want stuff like this in there if you can help it which is why I'm at least trying to show you how it comes across on my end. The tune and your mix is fine just as it is. Who knows, with my animal hearing, I may be the only one who can hear this...so my apologies if any of this sounds nit-picky. I honestly don't mean it to be and think the world of you. :) Here's the other:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/LongMayYouLiveDanny2.mp3

Hope this helps at least to show you what I hear over here. :)

-Danny

foxwolfen


Lynn, I am very impressed with most of this production. The vox are carved out nicely, the mids ring true, highs are tamed.

But. We have lost both energy in the lows, and crystal clarity in the highs. While the tone of the drums is present, its lacking the physical force (which is actually voltage) to move the cones and give me both a deep felt note and punch. Sadly I am just way to out of practice at the moment to give you specific advice and really delve deep into this to understand what is happening.

My instinc is compression. Compression is a tricky thing, and then throwing EQ into the pot makes for a compicated stew. But I am not confident in this. Wish I could be more help.

Hi Lynn, not a problem. Glad to help and I probably should have asked your permission and sent you a pm before just posting those files. So please accept my apology if that was out of line. I got to thinking about it and thought..."Wow, maybe I shouldn't have just took it upon myself to do that." As you know, I just sincerely want to help and sometimes I should probably ask before I do something.
 
I still hear the clicks in the new one you posted. I got my hair down right now though...lol....getting ready to go do a Van Halen tribute show...so my extra padding may be hiding some of the sound. LOL! I'm not sure where this could be coming from...maybe a plugin somewhere? I remember Bapu was using a plug one time where it was giving us this issue and he couldn't hear it no matter what we did. He killed that plug and the clicks went away, but he still never heard them.
 
As for the bass, well, here's the deal on that. Yeah, I definitely agree it could have a bit more bottom end "oomph." But as I said in my first post, some mixes that are a bit brighter gain a poppy type feel to them which is acceptable. For example, a lot of the Huey Lewis stuff had that kinda poppy sound where it really didn't push loads of low end. It's really subjective.
 
When I comment on something, I sincerely try to keep my personal bias out of the scheme of things and just look for issues or mix inconsistencies. To me, a mix like the one you have right now, would be a perfect candidate for mastering. It has a nice balance of everything and isn't pushing the envelope anywhere that makes it blatantly obvious that you need to fix something. This is where the subjective side of this field comes in and I try to keep out of that unless something hits me in a way that I feel it's worth mentioning. But yeah, you could get away with a little more say...50-60 Hz in this mix via mastering with a tight Q so it just gives us some low end "oomph" overtones. If it doesn't hit enough, you just open (or close the Q depending on how the eq you use works) Q a bit more to allow more lows to come in. It would give you a little more kick drum oomph and bring out your bass guitar a little more.
 
But this mix is really good and when you have a balance like this, it's a keeper to me. At the end of the day, most of us are happy with "better than demo" quality which you've definitely achieved here. Heck, I'm happy with "acceptable demo quality" here. LOL! Worst case scenario....if you can't find where these clicks are coming from, maybe you could send me a bundle file of the tune and I can take a look at it for you? We'd have to coordinate and see what plugs you have that I don't have first. And maybe, you can try killing one at a time, making me a little test mix (it can be the the first minute or so) and we can at least see if it's a plug issue if it;s plugs I don't have. If that fails, I can take a look at the bundle and see what the deal is. Also, take a look at your wave forms on that guitar track.
 
If you used a sim and that's a direct, clean sound, if it's spikey, that could be the issue. Quite a few guys send their clean DI into their DAW looking at their meters when they set things up, but during the actual recording, we get a bit excited and may hit something a little harder. Therefore, it may spike and if that's the case, it's in the actual recording and you won't get it out unless you:
 
a. send me the track and I'll pass it through my pop/click tools
 
b. re-record the track.
 
But we gotta find out how this is happening first and foremost. The good thing is...you can't hear it. LOL!! I say that meaning, it's ok if you call me a lunatic hahahahahahaha! If YOU heard these clicks on your end, you'd really be bummed about this. It doesn't seem like anyone else hears that other than Reece and me. (See how much you learned in one session with me Reece? Now you REALLY got animal hearing. Hahaha!) We'll get it Lynn....just don't get frustrated. I'll try to help you out if you need me. :)
 
-Danny

no, this project is MIDI heavy, I have 6 MIDI tracks all running thru Kontakt and I've narrowed it down to Kontakt, but no one particular track causes it, it's a tolerance build up kind of thing.

sorry to hijack, Lynn!

Nice beat on this track. Full speed! No time to rest. Good mixing.

Hi Lynn,

Really cool tune. Love the energy and all the little synth touches. Great job on the vocal, too.

Excellent!

Not my fav of yours ... production wise, Lynn.  Your last song or 2 were awesome as I remember.

Vox is incoherent to my ears ... maybe too much vox-mud ... too little hi-pass filter or something.

So all's I'm hearing is "I'm close to hell" and something about "forgive" and "live" ... my ears failed ... so I had to flip it.

But, I'm a neurotic for clarity.

Hey Lynn,

Very interesting tune my friend!  But I think I'm going to have to agree with Phillip on this one.  I also am a clarity stickler to a large degree, and I'm not getting it on your mix.  It comes and goes for some reason.  The mix is very busy, and I'm sure you intended that... but for my ears it seems like you are singing over a jam session, and in a few places the vocal syllables are out of time with the toms.

With all that said, I DO like your selection of instruments a lot, and think they are a great match for this tune.  Good job on the panning too.  I am not hearing the clicking at all on my system, but maybe you have already fixed it.  I like the bass line quite a bit.  And fantastic job on playing all those instruments too!

Don't hate me brother.  :-)    I do admire the creativity that HAD to come out of you to arrange this piece!!

Merry Christmas to you and yours.