Looking to get some insight on the advantages/disadvantages of MIDI vs. Inst. tracks...

Many of the VSTi I use have multiple outputs, some are multi timbreal. For example I may have an instance of Superior Drummer with many outputs for the different mikes, driven by a midi track. Or I will have an instance of Kontakt with eight instruments loaded with eight stereo outs, being driven by eight MIDI tracks. Simple Instrument tracks do not make a lot of sense in either of those scenarios.
 
 
It may be because I have always been a Cakewalk but I don't like simple instrument tracks even if I have a single output VSTi. I just find the two track approach easier to follow. Audio is audio and MIDI is MIDI. Apart from saving a bit or screen real estate all a simple instrument track does for me is introduce confusion. Of course YMMV. Use what ever works for you.

I never use instrument tracks. They were added in response to a few very vocal users who moaned that SONAR didn't work like Fruity Loops. Wah, wah. I thought they were useless then and I still do. They are, after all, merely an illusion to make two separate tracks appear to be one. They hide important controls and limit your routing options. Their only benefit is to save screen space in track and console views.

IMO MIDI and audio tracks should be separate, because they are very different things. When I am working on a project, I am either focused on MIDI data or audio data, rarely both at once. Instrument tracks force a 1:1 relationship between a MIDI track and one synthesizer, but I often have multiple MIDI tracks feeding a single virtual instrument, or one MIDI track feeding multiple instruments. That is the main benefit of using separate tracks.

hmm... When I toss in say an instance of BFD with all the kit pieces outputted to their own track an extra track that seems to have all the kitpieces routed to it appears. Am I correct in assuming that an instrument track is like having one kitpiece (or all kitpieces on one track) and that extra track mashed together?

Sorry for the crude attempt at wording that but being new to MIDI this stuff confuses me.

Cheers.

bitflipper


I never use instrument tracks. They were added in response to a few very vocal users who moaned that SONAR didn't work like Fruity Loops. Wah, wah. I thought they were useless then and I still do. They are, after all, merely an illusion to make two separate tracks appear to be one. They hide important controls and limit your routing options. Their only benefit is to save screen space in track and console views.

IMO MIDI and audio tracks should be separate, because they are very different things. When I am working on a project, I am either focused on MIDI data or audio data, rarely both at once. Instrument tracks force a 1:1 relationship between a MIDI track and one synthesizer, but I often have multiple MIDI tracks feeding a single virtual instrument, or one MIDI track feeding multiple instruments. That is the main benefit of using separate tracks.

Beeps, the above are my feelings as well. Also, I have NEVER had issues with an independent midi and audio track supporting synths. Meaning, they have always worked perfectly for me in this manner. One day, I decided to try the instrument track because I was told "get with the times dude, it's way better to do it this way". Well, it looked cooler and it was nice to do everything from one track, but I had noticed this weird artifact.
 
My piano would not trigger right unless I reloaded the sound sample. It played like my ASIO buffers were set to 32 or something. All choppy and messed up. Closing and re-opening didn't fix it. I was going nuts. At the time, I didn't know the samples had to be reloaded. Once I did that, the noise went away and stayed away for the remainder of my work in the project.
 
Close and re-open, artifacts were back. I posted a message on here begging for help because I was really going nuts and wondering how and why this was happening. I've been a Sonar user since the floppy disk days and have never experienced anything like this before. Ed (Bapu) comes on here and instantly remedies the problem telling me that instrument tracks have done the same thing to him numerous times.
 
I reloaded the track the old way, and to this day, have never had a problem again. I've tried the instrument track things a few more times...same issue, though at random. Sometimes there are no problems, other times these weird artifacts creep in. I can't even write up a bug report for it because I have no idea what causes it other than....if I stay away from instrument tracks, I NEVER EVER get these artifacts. Hope some of this helps bro. :)
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi

bitflipper


I never use instrument tracks. They were added in response to a few very vocal users who moaned that SONAR didn't work like Fruity Loops. Wah, wah. I thought they were useless then and I still do. They are, after all, merely an illusion to make two separate tracks appear to be one. They hide important controls and limit your routing options. Their only benefit is to save screen space in track and console views.

IMO MIDI and audio tracks should be separate, because they are very different things. When I am working on a project, I am either focused on MIDI data or audio data, rarely both at once. Instrument tracks force a 1:1 relationship between a MIDI track and one synthesizer, but I often have multiple MIDI tracks feeding a single virtual instrument, or one MIDI track feeding multiple instruments. That is the main benefit of using separate tracks.

Beeps, the above are my feelings as well. Also, I have NEVER had issues with an independent midi and audio track supporting synths. Meaning, they have always worked perfectly for me in this manner. One day, I decided to try the instrument track because I was told "get with the times dude, it's way better to do it this way". Well, it looked cooler and it was nice to do everything from one track, but I had noticed this weird artifact.
 
My piano would not trigger right unless I reloaded the sound sample. It played like my ASIO buffers were set to 32 or something. All choppy and messed up. Closing and re-opening didn't fix it. I was going nuts. At the time, I didn't know the samples had to be reloaded. Once I did that, the noise went away and stayed away for the remainder of my work in the project.
 
Close and re-open, artifacts were back. I posted a message on here begging for help because I was really going nuts and wondering how and why this was happening. I've been a Sonar user since the floppy disk days and have never experienced anything like this before. Ed (Bapu) comes on here and instantly remedies the problem telling me that instrument tracks have done the same thing to him numerous times.
 
I reloaded the track the old way, and to this day, have never had a problem again. I've tried the instrument track things a few more times...same issue, though at random. Sometimes there are no problems, other times these weird artifacts creep in. I can't even write up a bug report for it because I have no idea what causes it other than....if I stay away from instrument tracks, I NEVER EVER get these artifacts. Hope some of this helps bro. :)
 
-Danny

All of the above what Bit and Danny said!
 
(It's so cool not to have to type! WOOT!)
 

I don't often disagree with Bit, but here I do. Those who requested instrument tracks did not request them to be limited (let alone to have issues) nor were they all Fruity Loops fans.  That they don't cater for multitimbral or multiout instruments is part of the concept, being limited isn't. They can be ideal for monotimbral, single-out instruments and if they aren't (I don't have Sonar X so I can't tell) that's a matter of how they are implemented in Sonar, not a shortcoming of the concept.

Any idea how to do midi input quantization when it is simple instrument track? I do not see any controls when in that mode.

@James... I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but I can see the Input Quantize on a SIT I just inserted. You have to click the MIDI tab at the bottom of the Inspector pane and it will change the right strip from the audio view to a regular MIDI view.

I'm in the camp that always uses a simple instrument track if I only need a stereo out while tracking. For me it's simply a real estate and workflow thing. It's similar to a closed folder except I can actually get to the clip itself and basic data in a single track space. If you need to do advanced operations, you split it, then close it when you're finished. What they really should have done is put a plus sign on the instrument track just like folders that will do the split and combine operations without having to use the inspector menu, but other than that, very convenient. And obviously they should put more work into what operations can be done when the track is combined.

About a year ago I would have been +1ing Bit's & Danny's posts. I have posted many times they aren't worth bothering with...but... I must confess that I have been using them more and more lately. I'm actually finding them quite convenient for single output synths.

Having said that there are definitely some quirks with them that don't materialize with split tracks.

John


They are good for very simple needs. They are not for multi output synths or if you need to do editing and or automation.

I don't agree with Scott about them being good for a CS. I find just the opposite. 

I do think users should use the separate MIDI and audio track/s though. It would cut down on the posting here about problems with simple instruments tracks. The good thing about them is you can split them into MIDI and audio.

What's wrong with them if you are doing automation? As far as I can tell, the automation lanes that come along with them affect the audio part of the track, as they should. 

John, I agree with your comment that they're not for multi output synths. But I use them all the time for things like Alchemy and don't find it limiting. As far as I can tell, all the synth parameters are exposed for automation and you can just double-click the clip to go into PRV for editing.

I do think users should use the separate MIDI and audio track/s though.

 
That's certainly not going to happen here unless I need a multi-timbral synth.  It would simply serve no purpose for my needs. 
 
I do think users should use whatever they're comfortable with and that serves the task at hand.  And for me it happens to be SITs, even though others may think them to be less than fresh. 
 

John

What if you want to automate a synth?

There's a workaround for this other than splitting the track... just recording some automation directly from the synth interface. When you do that, SONAR will automatically add the envelope to the Instrument track and then that synth will also show up in the Edit Filter.


Scott

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