LJB
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/28 14:12:27
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Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/28 14:13:58
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Did you work something out?
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LJB
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/28 14:24:32
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Other than my old Go-To Blueverb. Nope :O)
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/28 15:18:38
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I have got an Ibanez rack mounted hardware reverb. I believe it was made by Sony at the time. It can be put into either Mono or Stereo operation. In Mono panning the input signal has no effect on the output panning but the output is still in stereo. In Stereo operation panning the input signal results in the reverb being panned as well. Not completely though. If I pan the input signal hard left for example I hear the reverb being panned too but it ends up mostly left and just a little on the right side. The stereo effect sounds slightly more pronounced as well. It is more like how things would work out in a real world situation. If you had 4 musicians playing in a room and they were all positioned across the room for example and only the most left player were playing you would still hear reverb right across the room with most of it being on the left side but there would still be some all be it lower reverb on the right side. It would not be the case that MIke has outlined where there would only be reverb on one side only. That cannot really happen in the real world can it. My Ibanez reverb has obviously got things set up to replicate what happens in a more real life situation and it sounds good too. I believe this is more likely the way it should be. It is nice because if you have say 4 input sources that are panned hard left, say 10 O clock, 2 O clock and hard right the reverb comes out that way too. You can hear the hard panned instruments reverb on their respective sides etc. It depends on what you want to do. Sometimes the mono in stereo out reverb effect is the better option and other times full stereo sounds better to me.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2013/01/28 15:27:20
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jbraner
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/29 08:07:51
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If I pan the input signal hard left for example I hear the reverb being panned too but it ends up mostly left and just a little on the right side. I think this is exactly how it should be. If the signal is coming out both left and right (more or less) evenly, then that can't be working in true stereo. The signal must have been summed...
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Lemonboy
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/29 12:22:14
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/29 12:31:54
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That's a great link.
Thanks.
best regards,
mike
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LJB
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/30 02:58:21
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Nice link Lemonbuy! So I got my definitions mixed up - apologies. This means that what I want is a Parallel Stereo unit.
So, start of new thread: "Whoooaaaa! Is Berverb REALLY Parallel Stereo!??!?!?!?!"
:O)
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Guitarpima
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/30 08:22:09
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You got me curious with this one. I just solo'd the verb bus and a vocal track and tested it. Send pan works here. The thing that threw me at first is everything down the line has to be panned.
Good thread though. Nice tidbets of info.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/30 08:35:40
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LJB
Nice link Lemonbuy! So I got my definitions mixed up - apologies. This means that what I want is a Parallel Stereo unit.
So, start of new thread: "Whoooaaaa! Is Berverb REALLY Parallel Stereo!??!?!?!?!"
That's what I was saying (awkwardly) a couple days ago when it seemed you were having a stressful day. :-)
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bvideo
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2013/01/30 12:39:33
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☄ Helpfulby bvideo 2013/06/16 10:08:24
Tested breverb here, casually. I found some of the 'hall'-based presets treat L & R inputs differently. So it's analogous to "true stereo" (even though breverb is algorithmic, not a convolution reverb). Not clear about the algorithms other than hall. Some algorithm names sound like they are meant to be "spaces", while others are traditional "sweeteners". E.g. why should "plate" be true stereo?
How tested:
1) a mono file in a mono track feeding a stereo bus with VST breverb on it.
2) choose a "hall" preset (I used "experimental piano")
3) Turn 'dry' to -inf in breverb (by the way, note the pan controls o---- and ----o below the wet and dry sliders; you could even sum the inputs or outputs to mono if you wanted to).
4) note that no matter where the input from the track is panned to, the output is stereo, and the L&R outputs are not identical.
5) Now for the conclusion: note that the wet sound is different when the input is panned left compared to right. To me, space emulation reverbs should do at least this (hopefully in some kind of space-coherent way).
Tried this on some non-hall presets and did not notice obvious L/R differences. Did not try null tests.
I have not found any breverb parameters that could adjust or account for the L/R input differences for hall. However, the limited Cakewalk version is missing two tabs that might have real parameters in the full version.
Bill B.
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SilverfoxUK
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 09:12:32
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Resurrection!
Hi LJB and others!
Funny I found this thread as I have just discovered the same issue in Breverb 2. It really got me stumped too. I've been trying recently to just use Sonar plugs for mixes but have found that I have struggled with Breverb. My issue is that I found it was alot of work to get it sounding how I wanted compared to other Reverb VSTs.
I have eventually got used to Breverb now and can just about get it to sound how i like.
I have found Breverb smearing my panning when adding as a ambience room verb on all instruments.
In my mind having Breverb on a buss (100% wet) and then sending a mono source panned hard L/R to that buss, should put it in the reverb buss space on both speakers, however it should still respect the placement and sound stronger depending on what side panned. Breverb 2 seems to just put them in both channels equally. Messe up the stereo spread of mix.
I tested the Blue Verb (part of the X3 suite) and it does in fact pan the sent mono signal in the reverb stereo mix.
What I could not glean from this whole thread is what IS the actual correct outcome.
Should a stereo reverb respect the panning of the send placement from a mono signal to it's buss or not?
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Karyn
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 12:33:40
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How many of you guys have tried recording in a genuinely VERY reverberant space? One where you can actually hear the reverb? The reality of reverb is that regardless of the position of the source sound, the reverb will come from all around you. You can gauge the general size of a space by the early reflections, and if the source is close enough to a wall or other hard surface the initial early reflections will be very very slightly louder from that direction, mainly in the form of an echo. But the initial sound will go off in all directions, you only hear the tiny fraction that heads directly to you. Most of the sound that hits the nearest hard object will NOT be reflected towards you, but will in turn head off in all directions. Thus is the nature of reverb. I recorded the Christmas Carol service in Lincoln Cathedral in 1999/2000, the 3rd largest cathedral in Britain and for over 200 years, the tallest building in the world (until the central spire collapsed). I can assure anyone here that reverb does not respect pan laws or stereo positioning. In fact it's a real pain in the belfry when you're trying to record intelligible speech for radio broadcast...
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bvideo
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 14:37:25
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Anderton
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 15:18:47
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I believe the majority of reverbs sum the inputs to mono, then generate a stereo field artificially. This harkens back to when reverb was thought of solely as a way to create a "room sound." Although an instrument's direct sound would have a spatial location, the reflections would not be equally defined. This is why few people objected.
However some people did, and for digital reverbs, when DSP became more powerful it was possible to have true stereo units that sounded decent. I think they're still probably in the minority, but haven't done any research to know one way or the other.
As mentioned above, the only way to achieve stereo reverb with a mono in/stereo out device is to use two reverbs. For me, this was never a problem because even when not needing/wanting stereo reverb, I typically used two digital reverbs so one could "fill in the cracks" of the other one.
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Keni
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 16:08:46
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I haven't had a chance to look into this more, but I'm also thinking that some stereo reverbs read then put as mono and generate terror reflections...
I don't know if that's the case here but I thought to mention it...
Keni
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sharke
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/17 16:41:33
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Personally I'm not a fan of too much stereo reverb in a busy mix. It just seems to take up too much space and reduces clarity, to my ears anyway. Sometimes I might use a tiny amount of a short room ambience on a drum bus, and I might use a nice lush stereo hall reverb on a solo synth part in a sparse, ambient mix, but if its a busy track then I much prefer either mono reverbs (panned LCR) or just doing away with reverbs altogether and using delays to create space.
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tenfoot
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Re:Whoooaaaa!!! Is Breverb really Stereo? This bothers no-one else?
2015/02/18 08:39:36
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+1 with Karyn on this one. Very well said:)
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