I am advocating for the idea that art and expression will not be constrained by any taxonomy or expectation, and so your polite disagreement seems entirely valid to me, and it seems clearly stated.


all the best,
mike

jamesyoyo

 

Your comments seem more directed as to how VSL records their brass, which I have no control over. The brass are sampled close, which might bother your ear, and does not bother mine. I experimented with numerous reverb settings and came up with the one that satisfied my ear the most.
JG 

Yeah, but you do have some control over how those VSL samples appear to the listener. Anyhoo, if you want, I will put it this way: I absolutely love what you did here musically. But anyone who listens to orchestral music will know it is not real. To me, the idea is to let the listener be transported by the music without the production getting in the way.

 
 
James, For 99.9% of my listeners, the production does not in the slightest get in the way of a pleasurable aesthetic experience because very few people, you excluded, are focused on how "real" it is.  When you look at an excellent photograph, do you immediately compare it to a painting of the same scene and discount it because it is not a "real" painting?  When you go to a movie, do you find fault with it because you are looking at an illusion, 24 still frames per second being perceived as "real characters" and "real" situations that are just a trick on your brain?  Do you compare a film to a play because the film is not a "real" play?   I doubt it. 
 
The only people I've met who continue to insist that a MIDI recording must sound exactly like a real orchestra are usually those musicians who are players (often jazz players) much more than they are composers.  Their inability to separate live performance from the interpretation of music often gets in their way from appreciating the many wonderful musical qualities that a skilled composer/producer can get with MIDI.   Since you like my music, I suggest you examine your attitudes that might not be open-minded enough to a new, and musically powerful, medium.   You might learn to appreciate the effort, skill and time it takes to get a MIDI recording to really sing.  I mean, who really cares if the horn doesn't sound exactly like a "real" horn?  Isn't all art about illusion anyway?
 
JG

foxwolfen

Hi Jerry,

Very impressive and enjoyable composition & recording. Like all of your previous postings.

Congrats and good luck with the CD.

If any of you are in the San Francisco Bay area, you might want to attend my workshop in May called "Beyond the MIDI Mockup", sponsored by the Manhattan Producer's Alliance and the San Francisco Center for New Music (www.jerrygerber.com/beyondthemidimockup.htm).

I'm sure this would be over my head but, man, I sure do wish I still lived in SF. 

Composer's Forum

jsg

jamesyoyo

mike_mccue


"But anyone who listens to orchestral music will know it is not real."


That's what people who go to the symphony think about all recorded music.

The classic recordings of great symphony performances, on their best day, sound like classic recordings.

Suggesting that there is some standard to adhere to is a form of nostalgia.




best regards,
mike 

Couldn't disagree more, Mike. People have expectations in genres that, when unmet, produce uneasy feelings that they might not be able to explain, but are indeed there. People hear symphonic stuff all the time in movies, tv shows, commercials, and they can feel the majesty of a live orchestra, and know the difference when they can't even notice it, if ya know what I mean.


And I just listened again with earbuds and the horns do seem out of balance. Too much frequency information and not enough reverb on some of them; they are just too hot. So it remains unconvincing not as a real musical piece, cuz it is awesome, but as a stand-in for the real thing. Some of the horn notes just sound so fast attack-y that it destroys the illusion.


The Yoyo's two cents...

  
  
Pretty much every TV commercial and TV show you hear these days is not using acoustic instruments at all.  But that's the world of commercial music, I am not in that world.  A composer, by my definition, is not put on this earth to "meet people"s expectation".  That's one of the differences between the commercial arts and the fine arts. 
 
And again, this is not, and does not pretend or intend to be, a "stand-in" for the real thing.  That's where your expectations and my production are in conflict.   This is NOT a mockup.  It is a digital interpretation of music, in the same way that a photograph is not a mockup for a painting.  Would it have been spelled out any clearer had I named the piece  "This is NOT an Acoustic Work"?    ;>)
 
Also, can you not appreciate and respect the subjectivity of your own hearing and listening skills?  I understand if you had said "my preference is that the horns be more in the background of the mix".  Then you are acknowledging that you, as a listener, have a part in the experience.  But saying "the horns are out of balance" presupposes a non-existent objectivity on your part.
 
JG

 

Ya know, Jer...whatever. Next time you post, just say "I need no criticisms, only compliments." And I will gladly comply, since your stuff is excellent.

Why post on a forum then? Just email the tune to your "trusted" friends and don't bother with the public. Obviously you don't care what the public thinks so why are you here?

I for one was glad to hear your work but won't bother in the future.

Very nice composition and midi sounds. You're right, music does come from the brain but sense of space and authenticity comes from the ears.

Excellent job Jerry, I loved it.  I listened to the whole thing and thought it sounded great all around. 

You get the "I prefer more salt on my potato's" everywhere.  For the most part, I think people are trying to be helpful in their own way.  With all of your experience, I would think brushing those comments aside, (if you don't agree with them), should be fairly routine.  Everyone has an opinion, but who is right, when it comes to music? 

I hate to see this thread turn negative, after posting such a cool piece of music, that obviously took alot of work and dedication.  I am glad you posted this, not only because it was a joy to listen to, but it was also a motivator for me.  Thank you for posting this piece.

 To my old ears, this sounds very natural to me, I wouldn't know it from a real orchestra.  Nice movement in this piece.  Dynamic and dramatic.  .   I like this piece.

Daryl