A room that's well-treated for monitoring will also help vocal recordings in that room. However, you probably want a much deader space for vocals than would be ideal for mixing.

In my old room, space limitations gave me no choice but to record vocals near a large window. I constantly dealt with weird resonances until I set 3 inches of 703 in the window frame. No glue, staples or screws or carpentry was required. I just lowered the blinds to hold the absorbers in place. It made a huge difference.

These days, I have a bigger room with higher ceilings. The vocal "booth" consists of 7 large gobos with 3" of 703 in each. It's DEAD. So dead that I can put my mic in omni and not worry about the proximity effect or getting too close to the mic. There are no more troublesome resonances. I use less EQ and compression when mixing vocal tracks. I get better consistency between takes, so comping is simplified.

Marcus Curtis

Danny Danzi

wst3

Danny Danzi
Honest Paul, with the right mic on the right voice at close range, you seriously have to have a problem in that room to literally hear it messing up a voice on a recording.

I may be coming at this from a different direction, but I have to respectfully disagree.


First, you'd be surprised at how bad some rooms are. People record in really bad spaces. As someone that grew up working in purpose built studios I find it disturbing, but that's a different topic. As someone that has designed a few studios (some of which even worked), and been asked to help correct quite a few studios (both critical listening and recording spaces), I can tell you there are some really bad rooms out there, and $300 is not a lot to spend to fix them!


The problems can be mitigated for less, but some folks do not wish to spend the time building gobos, or even draping moving blankets on mic stands. To each their own.


For the record, but not directly OT, I don't really like the sound of most of the reflection filter type designs. You have to know quite a bit about selection and placement to get them to sound good - and if you know all that stuff you may not need one<G>!


I have a space right now that is pretty bad - not awful, but bad enough that I do have to think about it. I use a music stand covered with old Sonex panels to provide some noise reduction and isolation. It's a real poor man's gobo<G>!


Second - you might be surprised at how many folks do not have the microphone they need to record their voices. Microphones, good microphones anyway, are still not cheap. And that makes it a bit tricky! My microphone locker is modest, but I can usually find something that can works. When I can't then I rent what I really want<G>!


All this to say that you aren't wrong - the key to recording is the proper microphone in the proper spot. With these two dragons bested you minimize the need for compression or filters. (All this assumes that you have a good performance to record<G>!)


But, by the same token I'm not sure I think it is good advice to dismiss, out of hand, something like the SE Reflexion Filter. It is a tool, and in the proper hands, used properly, it can be a really good tool.


That's all...

That's quite ok in my book, Bill. It's perfectly fine to disagree. :) That said, if neither of us have had the experience of the other, it's easy for us to not be able to relate. In my experience (been at this over 30 years, not that it means anything...but it's experience lol) a room has never ruined a vocal take at close range to the point of that vocal take being un-useable.

Bad rooms or not...I've never encountered an issue like this. Even with cheaper mics. I just really don't feel enough room gets into the scheme of things to ruin the take or make you feel a reprint is in order. Once the music is behind the vocal, if there IS any room artifacts, you will not hear enough of them in my experience. But even there...if you are close range at a mic, how much reflection are you going to hear? I guess I've just gotten used to processing and eq-ing a vocal as an entity within the room.

Sure, some rooms make a difference in the quality of the vocal. But the same can be said about the person singing. Even in a bad room, a terrific vocal performance says it all. Though at times we may get some artifacts, there's never been a vocal that I couldn't make work is what I'm saying. There's never been enough of the artifacts to ruin the take.

I think that any skilled engineer that knows what they are doing can make things work with little to no work really, don't you? I mean seriously...enough to justify a $300 purchase? So to me, I think it is good advice because if a person were to hone their skills a bit, they wouldn't need to rely on a contraption like this unless they literally recorded in a bathroom. I just can't see a basic office, bedroom, basement or whatever, being so much of a problem, that a close range vocal would be ruined because of it.

After reading this thread and then your respectful reply of disagreement, I took the liberty to experiment a bit in several rooms in my house using a 57 into my lap-top with a little Joe Meek pre. I can't hear any room artifacts that would ruin anything....and this includes both of my bathrooms. There's a little something there in my main bathroom, but nothing that ruins anything like people are making rooms out to do.

Definitely with you on choosing the right mic. But even there, I've never had a room destroy a close range vocal take. There are many ways we can process a vocal to take artifacts a bit more out of the recording if we need to. I've never been faced with having to do that other than when someone literally got too much room in the recording from being far away from the mic...that's all I'm trying to say.

We're talking rooms in people's homes though....bedroom engineers, right? How truly bad can they be? A bit different from someone that builds a studio that may have an "empty, untreated room" ya know? Even there...give me the close range vocal take where the room destroyed the take, give me the stems of the music beds and I will make it work. I just can't fathom this until I hear it and deal with it myself. That's the best way *I* can explain it.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be confrontational....it's just that in all my years, none of this has happened to me and I'm not just a bedroom wannabe. I've worked with artists from all over the world, recorded myself for 100 years, have worked in several big recording studio's as well as smaller project studios in the USA and have been in some really messed up situations. Yet I've never encountered a room destroying anything but a drum sound. Maybe I've just been lucky...and if that's the case, thank you Jesus. :)

-Danny

To be fair Danny you should have used a different mic to do your test. The SM57 has an extremely effective cardioid pickup pattern that isolates the main sound while minimizing background noise. You should have used a condenser instead of a dynamic mic. The higher end will bring about more room reflections. Something like the Sure beta 181. That is a condenser mic that is bi-directional. It will pick up a lot more room reflections then the sm57. 


I agree that mic choice does play an important role. although the 57 is good for what it does, When I record vocals and acoustic guitar I like to use a condenser. These mics will produce more room reflections. I think a product like this is marketed towards a guy like me. I just have a little project studio. I would never be able to record live drums here due to the limited space. I have a single room for recording and I am lucky to have that. this room is also my office and my storage for all my gear. Sound proofing is bad. I would like a better room for just recording but that is something I just don't have or can afford.


That being said I would never spend 300.00 on this thing. I have made my own reflection filters by using mic stands and a blanket. I have made my own pop filters by using panty hose and a coat hanger. When your on a tight budget and the money has to be divided up between software, instruments and live gear, Things like this fall by the wayside. I could find a much better use for 300.00


don't get me wrong, I do agree with most of your points. The further back you are from the mic the more room reflections you are going to get. my mic collection is modest and so is my gear collection.


In the end your not going to get as many reflections using something like a sure sm57 as opposed to a high end condenser. But I understand your points. 

Oh I did use several, Marcus. The high end mics were perfect with 0 reflection unless I used them on figure 8 or omni. Even there, though I heard a slight reflection, it was nothing that bothered me to where I felt "I need dead silent and reflection filters."
 
The test sample I put up was to prove that a cheap mic wouldn't bring on these artifacts. Nothing worse than a Logitech built-in cam mic with the noise cancellation turned off. LOL! So I'm back to my original answer and state this as my opinion only.
 
I do not believe any mic, while using a close mic technique, will bring on enough room reflection to mess with a recording that would justify a $300 gizmo like the thing we are talking about. That's just me as well as my experience, what I've JUST experienced through testing in various rooms with various mic's and how the outcome ended up on my end. Anyone else that uses these with great results to where they notice a major difference for the better, that's wonderful. :)
 
-Danny

Guitarpima


How about even cheaper?

You know those hooks you buy to hang plants? Get a few of those, some hangers and hang some flannel shirts. You'll need a straw hat to complete the ensemble but it should work just the same. ;-)

 

I wonder if Myolpal has a few extra straw hats he would donate to me for the cause?


Mike