Helpful ReplyController Recommendations?

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jeekem
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October 16, 12 6:22 PM (permalink)

Controller Recommendations?

Hi all,
 
    Just purchased X2 a couple of weeks ago. I've been working through some tutorials and haven't really done anything serious with it yet.  I'm running a W64 box with a VS-100 interface and an APro-300 as my main control surface.  I've been thinking of adding a pad controller to my hardware.  I've seen this question kind of posed before but it has been a while.
    Any recommendations would be appreciated.  I've been looking at the Akai MPD32s & 26s, NI Maschine or M. Mikro, and I'm a little compelled to check out the Novation Zero SL surface although it doesn't appear big on pads.  I'm fairly sure the Akai unit's would fill the minimum bill but if I'm going to drop 200 or 300 should I skip by them and go for an older maschine since I could get it with additional content?  Note- I'm not into making Dance, Hip-Hop or electronica.  I write mostly Blues, Rock and Folk type tunes. (A little Celtic here and there)
    Would I be better served by just picking up a Korg Nanopad 2?
I've never played with any of these things before but have read about them all and there are a million folks touting their personal favorites.  The only pads I've used were on the Apro or my iPhone.   So, I guess the bottom line is - what works wells with Sonar X1 or 2 and or what is the easiest to setup and configure and reconfigure, etc.
    I know maybe I should put this in the hardware forum but I wanted comments from the X1 and X2 users if possible.  Thanks in advance for any opinions.  I value the ones I see posted here.
 

jeekem
#1
gustabo
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 6:25 PM (permalink)
I have the Akai MPD26 and love it! Works great with Sonar.


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

#2
donbelisle
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 6:29 PM (permalink)
I have the Korg stuff, to many "blue screens of death " with their
USB drivers. Now they are gathering dust.
I use my DR-880 drum machine for pad triggering.
I use Yahama products for keyboards.

Don B
#3
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 8:52 PM (permalink)
Thanks for the reply.  I have an old Yamaha S08 88 key weighted synth that I love but I can't put it close enough to my desk to make it convenient to use a lot.  I have it hooked up and I play with it though.  (sort of)
I never even thought of looking at what Yamaha has to offer in the way of controllers though.  I think I will though!
 
Thanks again.
#4
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 8:58 PM (permalink)
Thanks for the response.  I may have to drive the 30 miles to the nearest Guitar Center and play with one.
I was sort of comparing the MPD 26 to the Korg Pad Kontrol earlier.  It's odd how subjective a piece of hardware can be but I guess no one wants to admit that they made a mistake by purchasing something.  The Pad Kontrol owners say the pads are of better quality but the Akai owners say the Korg is a plastic piece of junk.
 
Works well with Sonar is what I'm looking for though!
 
Thanks again.
#5
Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 9:31 PM (permalink)
I own a padKontrol and although it's a bit of a pain to learn how to map once it's going it is quite nice for the price. AKAI and NI or whatever probably have better quality but you are paying quite a bit more for it. Just be sure to get the latest drivers for it and when you install it choose the USB port you want to use and stick with it (for some reason the drivers get confuzzled or something when you move it around... or so many complaints on the Korg forum state). 

I wouldn't get to psyched about using the XY pad for the rolls and flams it advertises because it's tricky to operate that way but it is quite good for messing around with parameters and effects.

The sensitivity is great with the right program and with BFD I'm get some very nice, realistic sounding drum parts with it. It wasn't so great with Session Drummer so I just set it to fixed velocity with SD3 and intended to tweak them in PRV later... but yeah, got BFD now so that's not an issue.

I got mine from amazon for $160 and they threw in a generic foot controller which I map to a kick sound and although it's not GREAT it does the trick. The pedal note with the pK can only be set to full velocity... (I think).

Cheers.
#6
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 16, 12 10:07 PM (permalink)
Hey Thanks.  I'm a tech and I've run into USB printers and flash drives that get "married" to one particular USB port and won't work with anything else as well.  Thanks a lot for the advice.  I got burned by Behringer a while back when I bought one of their controllers so now I'm careful.
If not for a guy named A.J. on this forum I would have never gotten any use out of that BCR unit.  I used it for a couple of years after A.J. published his fix for it .  About six months ago I traded it to a DJ for two Shure SM57s. (A great trade!) Behringer was zero help at the time so I avoid their equipment whenever I can.
I use Toontracks Superior Drummer 2.3 for most of my drums but I like to throw in some some humanity to keep from sounding mechanized. Toontracks stuff gives a lot of variety so I never have to add a lot.  Thanks for the response.  (Great pic!)
#7
Psychobillybob
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 0:48 PM (permalink)
Akai stuff is sound, there are p[lenty of users who can cop up ACT stuff...

for the money an older Korg Kontrol will also do the trick...ebay it...gives you another A/D option...mine works fine on a WIn7 64 machine...

I'm using SOnar Platinium on a 6 core Lynx Audio machine and a ton of vintage pre-amps/eq's/comps I build for fun and sometimes money, REDD.47/API/Neve I also use the UAD stuff, and also use a Macbook Logic 9 through Apogee...
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Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 11:33 AM (permalink) ☄ Helpful
No problem. I think I'm one of the very few dudes here who owns a pK so it's hard to get pK specific advice on this forum and the Korg forums are VERY slow moving (I don't want to say it sucks because the archives are good but you can wait weeks for an answer if you get one at all).

Now just to be clear I'm referring to the actual padKontrol not that nanoKontrol or microKontrol stuff. Lots of problems with those reported online (pads failing, cheap and flimsy, easy to break, poor sensitivity, etc...). The pK is plastic but it's decent quality plastic. If you are familiar with M-Audio stuff I'd say the plastic is about the same quality. You wouldn't want to drop it but I slap the thing like a freak without worry. The AKAI dudes are definitely bound to poo poo the pK because AKAI made the originals and as far as I know they are mostly steel but as I said you are paying quite a bit more. They also don't have the XY pad which is actually a pretty cool feature.

I used to actually play drums (can't anymore for various reasons) and I'm using mine to play acoustic kits in BFD Eco for rock/metal and the results are very realistic indeed. Nice smooth fills, no machine gun nonsense, great ride, hi hat and cymbal hits. I don't have anything I've recorded with it up on soundcloud yet but there are vids on youtube of guys using it for acoustic kit work quite skillfully.

If you do end up buying it and want some help getting it set up let me know. I'm usually around or you can PM me. The manual is very confusing (was to me anyway) but once you have it figured out it's pretty easy work with. I don't bother trying to use ACT with and just program the actual unit to be set up the way I like. I've never managed to get the editor librarian to work properly (didn't try too hard) but it has 16 banks onboard that stay in the internal memory (more than enough for me). There are some little quirks like you have to have it turned on BEFORE you open Sonar or it won't transmit a signal. Also it is an older product so I'm not sure how much longer it will have driver support. It works with Win7 and X2 perfectly but I'm not sure if it'd gonna have drivers for Win8 or beyond so that's something to consider.

Anyway here are some neat pK vids...

Drum solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8of2t9QQbck

David "Fingers" Haynes jamming with Victor Wooten at NAMM on what appears to be a padKontrol (he really opens up in this particularly around the 5:00 mark): http://www.youtube.com/wa...0s&feature=related

Just found this one which is a guy showing off nativeKontrol for the pK (I had never heard of it until today). This is very intense and I think I'm gonna be looking into it myself: http://www.youtube.com/wa...88&feature=related

And my personal fave some guy playing a pK like he's strumming a guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QGAZuSWq7Y   lol
#9
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 8:22 PM (permalink)
Thanks again. I do appreciate the insights.  I've been thinking of taking the Groove 3 course on how to think like a drummer though. HA!  After 30 years of playing I'm not sure I can even think like a guitarist!
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Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 9:17 PM (permalink)
  Well here is the first of a free series on youtube by MPC master Jeremy Ellis on finger drumming basics... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEpLD6vD43E

You should be able to link through to the lessons using the side bar or related links but if not just copy/paste the title of the current vid into the youtube search bar and change the lesson number to the next in the series. He has a youtube page and a website too so that might might make things easier. You obviously don't need to use the same controller, sounds or mappings to work through these lessons (my mapping is DRASTICALLY different than his). They are all based on standard drumming concepts. 

Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 9:27 PM (permalink)
And I wish Gustabo would remove whatever image he has in his sig line that prevents the page from fully loading. :-/
#12
gustabo
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 9:40 PM (permalink)
Beepster


And I wish Gustabo would remove whatever image he has in his sig line that prevents the page from fully loading. :-/


Sorry, didn't know that I was causing any problems.


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

#13
Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 9:49 PM (permalink)
Not you, man. Just wherever that image was hosted. It might be my browser. You're cool. Thanks for taking it out though. The little "waiting" Windows swirl was driving me nuts. Cheers. :-)
#14
gustabo
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 9:54 PM (permalink)
Beepster


Not you, man. Just wherever that image was hosted. It might be my browser. You're cool. Thanks for taking it out though. The little "waiting" Windows swirl was driving me nuts. Cheers. :-)


No problem


Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/

#15
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 10:01 PM (permalink)
Again- Thanks a lot.
I think I've pretty much ruled out Maschine as an option.  With a few exceptions there seems to be tons of people with them that can't figure out how to make them do what they want to do.  Also I get the impression that the majority of NI's content is targeted at the DJing crowd, Hip Hop producers and folks that engineer dance music for clubs.  I've got nothing against any of that - I've just never been into the clubbing or dance scenes.  I'd still rather listen to a few gifted musicians than an army of techno whiz kids playing with midi driven groove maschines.  I'd rather listen to James Brown (What a band!) than sampled slices out of groove clips of James Brown being remixed.
Call me old-fashioned......
Hell, just call me old!
#16
Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 10:34 PM (permalink) ☄ Helpful
  When I was researching it seemed AKAI stuff and the pK were the best options for pad sensitivity and durability. The NI stuff is in there too but they have such a variety of products not necessarily geared towards proper finger drumming. Lots of more loop trigger oriented devices like you said... however the ones they DO make specifically for smooth pad controlling are supposedly the bees knees... but are WAY more expensive. Like $900 kind of expensive. 

  Sounds like you'd do fine with an AKAI (around $300) or a pK (under $200). Just check reviews and vids and I'm sure you'll find what works for you. That's what I did and I knew NOTHING about MPC stuff before I started researching last winter and ended up with the pK. 

If I had the dough though I think I'd rather have an AKAI. Cheers. 
#17
Fog
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 11:01 PM (permalink)
Beepster


  Well here is the first of a free series on youtube by MPC master Jeremy Ellis on finger drumming basics... 


he has used other controllers also.. I guess it's depending on who is paying him to demo them ;-)
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Beepster
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 17, 12 11:16 PM (permalink)
Heh. I just call them MPCs even though that's kind of a brand/model thing. Makes sense. Midi Pad Controller. It was real pain looking around for something suitable as a complete n00b because no one seems to use a standard name for the bleeping things.


#19
ducatibruce2
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 18, 12 0:27 PM (permalink)
Roland does some pads in the HPD & SPD series - more expensive than the Korg style though

S8.5.3PE & X1d P Exp & X2P, Q6600 @3Ghz, 4GB DDR2, XP SP3
With Knobs: 2 x Yamaha i88x mlan (ASIO), RS7000, Motif ESR, Roland SI24, VSynth XT, Varios, Fantom XR, JunoD, HPD10, Korg PadKontrol
No knobs: P5, DimPro, Rapture, Z3ta+, IK stuff, ReCycle, Komplete8
#20
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? October 20, 12 1:40 PM (permalink)
Well, thanks all for the advice.  I took the plunge last night.  I was looking at the Korg PK up at a local pawn shop that had the software and stuff with it for $100.00.  I thought that was a bit steep for a pawn shop since I'd seen new ones at Amazaon for $140 to 150.00
I checked on E-bay for "ending soonest" and picked up an Akai MPD26 with all the accessories still shrink wrapped for $130.00. (Plus shipping) I've already downloaded the manuals and started going through them and should have the unit by the middle of next week.  Can't wait.  Now I've got to clean my workspace so I have a place to set it up! Oh, well.
Around every silver lining is a dark cloud.
 
 
To Beepster: I was really leaning towards that Korg PK until the last line of your last post!
 
Thanks All!   I appreciate all the advice and help.  It helped me take a leap. Without it I would have spent a couple of more weeks reading and watching the net.
 
For the record- I know I've been an inactive member of this forum for a long time but I'm actually kind of a noob myslef.  When I first signed up I was starting to educate myself but had a really bad few years on a personal level.
My wife was diagnosed with cancer,  (Mutliple Myeloma) and had a major stroke during her 2nd chemo treatment and ending up spending over three months at several different hospitals. She finally came home but needed around the clock help for a long time.  She's get a bit better and then a bit worse off and on.
In 2008 my older and only brother died suddenly, 8 months later in 2009 my father died and then in August of 2010 I lost my beloved wife of 33 years.  We had become Grand parents about a year earlier.  I stopped playing and recording for almost two years.  I just started to get into playing and learning Sonar and early this spring one of my two dogs was diagnosed with cancer. I'm getting her treatment but it's expensive and off and on time consuming.  I now have two grand kids living with me and another on the way and I thank God for them because they've made me want to continue living.
So please understand that although I've been a member a long time I'm still somewhat of a novice and I'm having to re-learn guitar as well.  So- that's my story and I DO appreciate all of you reaching out and giving me advice.
Its uplifting to know that there are good people around that will go out of their way to help a complete stranger.
Thanks again.
 
Update- my dog died in Dec. 2012.  I got a new Grandson in March of 2013 so I have three Grand-kids (4 and under) living with me now.
It's really hard to record with them around but they are more important anyway.  I've had the Akai MPD26 for quite a while now and when I do get time to use it, I love it.
Also picked up Jamstix a few months back and I absolutely LOVE that! With that and all my Superior Drummer stuff my drum tracks are sounding great.
post edited by jeekem - June 16, 13 7:52 PM

jeekem
#21
jeekem
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Re:Controller Recommendations? June 16, 13 7:46 PM (permalink)
Is anyone else in this forum getting spammed by a fakeID business?
I getting e-mails that look like they are related to this forum only to find that a user supposedly named Jacky123 is sending me these advertisements via the forum.  It's really ticking me off.  I've gotten several of them over the last two weeks.  I e-mailed the Forum sysop today about it and sent a copy to the NSA/FBI in case they missed it! (ha-ha, sort of)
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