Daylaa
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What's causing my Drop Outs?
Hi folks, When I open up a project and hit 'play', whenever a new track begins playing, the whole project 'stutters' or 'buzzes' for a moment and then continues. I believe this usually happens with MIDI tracks. I am also experiencing regular Drop Outs in my general movements around a project - particularly when zooming in on Audio very closely when the track is playing. But these drop outs tend to happen at just about any moment when playing back. Sonar freezes for a few seconds when I open a new synth. When I stop playback, often the project will 'stutter' or 'buzz'. Moving between screen sets often 'hangs' and I get a glimpse of a strange loading window which appears but disappears very quickly. Pro Channel EQ buzzes and freezes BUT NOT ALWAYS ARRRGH! This is intermittent. I will have 1 glorious week where it's smooth and then the next week it will buzz and freeze everytime I sweep a frequency or hit the 'gloss' of filter buttons. Everything just seems unpredictable and unstable. What I've Done:- I feel like I've tried everything. I've experimented with buffers on my sound card and in Sonar preferences. I've tried many combinations - Whether the two match or not doesn't seem to make any difference. Believe me, I've tried and tried.
- I've disabled 64 Bit Precision Engine as I read a few threads that it can cause issues.
- I've experimented with different Drivers - ASIO etc... No change.
- I have spent 1 whole week of my life trying to single out any hardware/software issue on my machine that may be causing problems and found that MAYBE it was my network adaptors causing a few spikes now and again. However, with them completely disabled - no improvement.
- My projects have about 6 synths in the rack - including True Pianos, Rapture, maybe Predator or Z3TA.
- Dimension Pro just crashes EVERYTIME. Completely unusable.
- No major processing on any tracks - no look ahead plug ins etc.
Sonar just generally feels unstable. I can't trust it. I have a very powerful Audio-friendly machine with hardly ANYTHING installed on it other than Sonar. My machine should be able to EAT the projects i'm working on. Could Sonar be causing this general unstable feeling in all of my projects?? If someone could give me a lead - something else to eliminate - that would be much appreciated. I am determined to make Sonar X2 workable, but since purchasing it and my new machine, I have completed absolutely nothing. Many thanks. Dave
Sonar X3 Producer Rain Computer's Nimbus Z2 I7 Processor 32GB RAM Windows 7 Pro Solid State HD M Audio Audiophile 192 M Audio Studiophile BX5a Deluxe's Edirol PCR 500 Melodyne 3 External HDrvs I am 'I Woke a Giant' Hear my stuff at: https://soundcloud.com/i-woke-a-giant
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phrygiann
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 6:20 AM
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Try to adjust your audio interface to its maximum audio buffer size. I experience that especially when i have 5+ midi tracks with audio buffer size at its minimum. When tracking i only use 2-3 midi tracks i freeze the others thats not important and set buffers to its minimum to have the least latency then switch to max i want to listen or finish tracking.
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit; AMD Phenom™ II quad-core processor 820; 8GB DDR3 SDRAM; 3.1GHz oc'd; 1TB hard drive; 1 TB 2nd hdrive, 1 TB usb 3.0 external HD. Roland Quad-capture, Casio PX-310; senheisser MK-4, Shure SM-58; Senheisser HD 380 pro, krk rokit6. Subaru forester 2012.
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gswitz
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 6:47 AM
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Check the file sizes that are being written under Preferences > Files. If the files are 32 bit consider reducing it to 24 bit. Also consider turning of virus scanning. If you have a tool that is inserting itself between you and your files, that might cause some stuttering. Most virus scanning programs have the ability to bypass certain directories.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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gswitz
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 6:54 AM
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The 64 bit audio engine should probably be left on once you solve your problems you've posted here. Have you used a DPC Latency checker tool to ensure you don't have spikes? Try turning off windows updates and the Windows Defender. What is the CPU load on your system when sweeping frequencies causes crackle? This sounds like CPU load is causing the problem, but you say you have a beast of a machine, so... :-) idk. You might also get crackle sweeping EQ Bands if you were causing clipping. So... put a track at unity so that the peaks are close to 0 then boost a freq in the EQ and you should be able to clip certain frequencies... This would be a different sound than struggling with an overloaded CPU. Also, in my experience, an overloaded CPU usually drops out.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 7:48 AM
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Yup... run the buffers up to give it more time to think.... also ASIO is the driver you should be using... (preferred choice) Even though you think the computer should be able to "eat huge projects" you may wish to experiment with some reducing..... bounce or freeze the synths. Some of them may be using enormous amounts of processing power to keep everything running.... convert them all to audio and freeze or archive (turn off) the synths. I also noticed in your list of gear that you mentioned Melodyne. This is another one you definitely want to bounce to audio and remove. I work on it.... one instance at a time, one track at a time and when I have that track correct I simply use the APPLY FX function to print ME to the track it was in. ME is a big power hog. Generally I work on audio vocal tracks with ME. Since I don't want the out of tune vocals (that's why I'm using ME in the first place) I do use the destructive editing of "apply FX" without fear. If I'm scared to loose the original track I will clone the track before I work on it with ME..... then I have a backup in the event something goes wrong. I mark it Original Vox track and proceed with editing the clone. By converting all the synths and the big FX like ME to audio, it should be a breeze to handle the projects in audio. Just my 2 cents
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 8:35 AM
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Windows 7 Pro can recognize up to 192 GB of memory, so no problem there. There is a possibility that your motherboard may not actually support 32 GB. (This one is unlikely, if you have 4 memory slots, but you can look it up quickly enough to rule it out). What precise driver version do you have installed for your interface? Also, what Sample Rate is specified for your audio interface, as well as what ASIO Buffer Size (or number of samples if that is how they do it)? And, what Sample Rate is specified in Sonar, as long as record bit-depth? Do you have anti-virus software and/or malware detection software running? What does DPC Latency Checker report, for latency times? If you hit 'E' on your keyboard to bypass all effects (hitting it again will turn them back on), do you still have the latency issues? Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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chuckebaby
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 9:35 AM
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posting your specs might yield better results to pin point certain issues.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 9:38 AM
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THis is from the original post: Sonar X2 Producer Rain Computer's Nimbus Z2 I7 Processor 32GB RAM Windows 7 Pro Solid State HD M Audio Audiophile 192 M Audio Studiophile BX5a Deluxe's Edirol PCR 500 Melodyne 3 External HDrvs Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 9:44 AM
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(the bold was from the original poster, not I) :) Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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CJaysMusic
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 10:00 AM
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Go into your aud.ini file and adjust your dropoutsec setting or its called something like that. Try raising it. Cj
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scook
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 10:02 AM
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Certainly everyone here are suggesting the usual suspects and you need to go though them. There is something that struck me about your hardware. The Nimbus Z2 has five internal drive bays but there are 3 external drives mentioned in the configuration. I wonder what portions of the DAW are running on the external drives. Are the external drives bus powered? I might try running exclusively from internal hardware with the external drives powered off (if they have external power supplied) or disconnected if they are bus powered. If all else fail, Rain does configure the Z2 with SONAR. Did they setup this unit? Either way, they might be able to help you sort out your issues with their hardware.
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scook
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 10:04 AM
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CJ I believe you are thinking about DropoutMsec I bumped mine to 750
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GIM Productions
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 10:28 AM
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Hi Daylaa,let me try..... Your problem semms like a spike cpu overpowered and many times this is a wifi mobo related issue. You can try to disable all wifi devices and cpu power speed up in your mobo set up. Last for now,choose the background servicies in System Advanced properties tab in W7. Good luck
Intel i7 3600,Asus Z170P,16 GIG Corsair ram,Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 i\o,Nektar Impact LX 49,Focusrite Liquid Mix,Monitors ADAM-K&H,Sonar Platinum Windows 10 SP1 Producer....more stuff in SStudio, Rome ,Italy.
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Freddie H
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 11:22 AM
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☄ Helpfulby jps July 06, 13 2:30 PM
I haven't read all post. It can be numerous things that can cause problems. Have you done XP tweaks on Windows 7 can be one. That can cause the OS and SONAR instability. Here is some other advice you can go thru. * Disable Speed step, sleep in BIOS * Check "core parking" = disable it Check the internet how to do that. * Power schema in windows 7 to full. Check same on USB ports especially if you use USB audio card so isn't randomly sleeping..= causing drop outs * Disable UAC * Processor scheduler shall always be set to "PROGRAM" not "Background" on Windows 7 and Windows 8. On XP another story... * Never ever disable AERO. All graphic shall be set to full!!! Very important! * Virus program = use Microsoft Security essential, free and no bad impact on the computer Good luck! Best Regards Freddie
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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gswitz
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 11:29 AM
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StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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daveny5
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 11:36 AM
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X2 is not unstable so its something with your computer equipment or configuration. My questions and suggestions: - You should be running X2A.... download and install the update. - What is the number of samples you have your ASIO driver set to? Try starting with 256. You can lower that once you get it working better. - Make sure the audiophile 192 is the only soundcard selected in Preferences-Audio. You should use it at 24 bit, 441KHz at least until you resolve your problem. - Make sure you're not using any demo or trial plug-ins. - What are you using the 3 external hard drives for? I wouldn't use those for Sonar. - I assume the SSD is your c: drive. Do you have Sonar installed on the SSD? - Run a FULL memory test. (Try the Windows 7 test, but you should also run MEMTEST or take out all but one RAM and see if the problem goes away. Then put them back one at a time. I suspect you have 4 8GB DDR3 modules.) - Dimension Pro should not be crashing your system. Can you run Dim Pro standalone without it crashing? - I would turn the 64-bit double precision engine back on. I've never had any trouble with that. - What are your reported latencies on Preferences-Audio-Driver settings?
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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gswitz
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 11:44 AM
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DaveNY5 has good tips. Also, I run a 6 year old laptop with only 1 processor and it can handle Dim Pro without any problems. It can handle a pile of Dim Pros without problems. My laptop processor and memory has a windows experience index of 6 and 4 GB of RAM.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Daylaa
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 05, 13 7:59 PM
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Hi again. Thanks so much for everyone's input. I will explore all leads and answer all questions when I can dedicate a few hours to it again. As you can imagine, to do everything will take lots of time. Please don't think I've gone quiet on you.
Sonar X3 Producer Rain Computer's Nimbus Z2 I7 Processor 32GB RAM Windows 7 Pro Solid State HD M Audio Audiophile 192 M Audio Studiophile BX5a Deluxe's Edirol PCR 500 Melodyne 3 External HDrvs I am 'I Woke a Giant' Hear my stuff at: https://soundcloud.com/i-woke-a-giant
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dan le
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 7:23 PM
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I am surprised CJ did not say it is the driver. dan
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jb101
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 7:48 PM
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chuckebaby posting your specs might yield better results to pin point certain issues.
THis is from the original post: Sonar X2 Producer Rain Computer's Nimbus Z2 I7 Processor 32GB RAM Windows 7 Pro Solid State HD M Audio Audiophile 192 M Audio Studiophile BX5a Deluxe's Edirol PCR 500 Melodyne 3 External HDrvs
I guess they weren't specific enough. He doesn't mention colour of chair, number /style of lava lamp(s), room treatment..
post edited by jb101 - July 11, 13 7:54 PM
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jb101
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 7:50 PM
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Teksonik will be along soon with one of his obsessive rants about people obsessing about specs, if we're not careful..
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slartabartfast
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 8:36 PM
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As someone else has already pointed out, you have a monster mid-tower machine, but the only drive with a direct connection to your MB is an SSD. Why do you have external drives on that machine? How are your external drives connected--USB (direct or via hub, all to same USB controller), eSATA, other? Can you run Sonar and all your plugins without them? What are the drive speeds? Are they power saving (green) drives or enclosures? Since this is a purpose built audio machine, I assume we can skip the usual worries about a wireless network, incompatible video card or driver etc. If you can run your machine without the externals without a problem, then that would speak to the problem being there.
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jbow
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 9:34 PM
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I just got some help on this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/WmiPrvSE-is-causing-I-spoke-to-soon-It-seems-that-my-USB-hubs-SOLVED-m2857812.aspx I was getting spikes when running DPC Latency checker. I tried this and that but after getting excellent help I went in Device Manager and disabling everything under network adapters. Just try disabling everything there, you can enable them when you get through. After doing this I was getting an absolute maximum μs of 148. This after running DPC for about 5 minutes. Most of the time I was running between 90μs and 108μs which is pretty excellent for an off the shelf laptop. I hope this helps. Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 11, 13 9:38 PM
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Hey... sorry, I missed this. I have spent 1 whole week of my life trying to single out any hardware/software issue on my machine that may be causing problems and found that MAYBE it was my network adaptors causing a few spikes now and again. However, with them completely disabled - no improvement. Maybe it will help someone else. I am going to follow this thread. I'm sure I wil get some help here too! Best to you and sorry, I skimmed the OP. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 12, 13 5:22 AM
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jb101 Teksonik will be along soon with one of his obsessive rants about people obsessing about specs, if we're not careful..
Beat me to it Jonathan
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 12, 13 6:36 AM
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First, as was already mentioned, check your system's DPC latency. If the machine exhibits large spikes, you need to resolve that issue. Don't know what motherboard is in your machine. It's possible the Audiophile 192 is in a bridged PCI slot (which can cause issues). Do you have the external HDs connected to a USB3 controller? It's possible that a drive is running in PIO mode (which can kill performance).
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Daylaa
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 23, 13 8:39 AM
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Hi guys. Just as an update, I have installed home studio 7xl in my new machine. I am very familiar with it having used it on my old machine. It is working solid as a rock. Even dimension pro works great. Even huge projects work great. What does this eliminate? Sound card? Devices?
Sonar X3 Producer Rain Computer's Nimbus Z2 I7 Processor 32GB RAM Windows 7 Pro Solid State HD M Audio Audiophile 192 M Audio Studiophile BX5a Deluxe's Edirol PCR 500 Melodyne 3 External HDrvs I am 'I Woke a Giant' Hear my stuff at: https://soundcloud.com/i-woke-a-giant
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robert_e_bone
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 23, 13 10:52 AM
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@jb101 - I only provided the snippet of specs to make sure they were seen, and not to poke sticks at Chuck. And, the poster had not listed things like record bit-depth, sample rate in Sonar, or audio interface settings, or even driver mode, for that matter. I also frequently find it easier to diagnose issues when I have a clear image in my head of what the setup and system is, although needing that info certainly depends on the issue and is not universally required to provide meaningful assistance. I don't need to know why you two have issues between you - I would only point out that when you two get to going at it, it disrupts the thread at hand, which makes it harder to provide assistance, and is also not particularly fair to the original poster. I have been an unwilling participant in email/thread wars in the past, and really have no interest in them whatsoever, at this point in life. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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jbow
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 23, 13 8:31 PM
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I don't know but if I were you I would try a clean install of X2 Producer... just to see. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Re: What's causing my Drop Outs?
July 23, 13 10:41 PM
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I don't think this suggestion has been made yet, but perhaps investigate the following to rule it out. Edit > Preferences > MIDI - Playback and Recording Crank the "Prepare Using ___ Millisecond Buffers" from 250 to 500. I believe we reduced the default setting in SONAR X2 (don't quote me I'm recalling from memory at the moment ;). That might explain a difference between SONAR HS7 XL and SONAR X2. More info on the setting here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=Dialogs2.060.html Worth ruling out at least.
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