Helpful ReplySine wave adding thump to Kik?

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M_Glenn_M
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2013/10/20 20:46:43 (permalink)

Sine wave adding thump to Kik?

I was reading on this in several places but am confused about how to go about it in Sonar.
http://blog.reddogmusic.co.uk/2013/07/16/how-to-add-thump-to-a-kick/
The theory is a gated sine wave triggered from a control track as I understand.
Know of any videos? 


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#1
dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 21:41:30 (permalink)
Do you have the pro channel gate?  If not, it's no big deal since i believe the Sonitus gate has sidechain. 
#2
M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 21:50:04 (permalink)
Yes I do thanks.
I've never done a gate to trigger a tracks wave.
It must be like a reverse ducking sidechain?
Instead of the signal dropping with the trigger, it plays right?
What wave has the gate?.


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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 22:02:53 (permalink)
The gate goes on the sine track.  Create a send on the kick track and send it to the gate on the  sine track
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 22:04:52 (permalink)
Cool, thanks, That makes sense.
I placed the noise generator plug on an audio track and hit play but no noise.
How do you make it make its noise?
post edited by M_Glenn_M - 2013/10/20 22:23:14


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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 22:36:22 (permalink)
I usually use a  long midi note on a synth, but i'm guessing it should still work the same way wit ha generator.  adjust the threshold
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 22:48:11 (permalink)
Sorry, I'm not understanding the process/idea
Where do I put the plugin?


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#7
scook
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/20 22:49:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M_Glenn_M 2013/10/21 19:11:05
The tone generator that I use MOscillator (from the free MeldaProduction suite) would need the input echo on to hear it with the gate after it to hear the complete effect. It may be handy to tune the generator with the input echo on, previewing the effect with the gate; ultimately you will need to get the tone on the track. To do that, let the track record however long it needs to be. This will create a blank wave. Freeze the track to print the MOscillator. Enable the FX bin, disable the MOscillator. The gate should be enabled and working on the frozen track.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 01:46:37 (permalink)
M_Glenn_M
Sorry, I'm not understanding the process/idea
Where do I put the plugin?


ARe you referring to the gate plugin or your generator?  If you are referring to the gate, you want that to be on the sound you wan t gated; the track with the sine .  Never tried it with a generator, so scooks advice is probably rock solid. I find it is easier to control  this sort of layering by generating a midi file that  mirrors my kick pattern and having it trigger a sine based  subbykick patch in a synth.  be very careful doing this kind of layering because if you don't have monitors that are capable of handling deep sub-bass, it may sound fine and the sound like a muddy mess when played on a system with deeper low end.  i did this while  mixing on some cans and found myself in the studio with a useless kick track
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 17:31:37 (permalink)
Did you get this working?  I looked ta the link you posted again and it is fairly easy to follow the instructions given there since the process is almost identical in Sonar.  I did have trouble getting it to work with the oscillator plugin, so I will try that again in case you need more help.  if you don't get this working, i can upload a project file showing an exact setup that works using nothing but internal X3 plugins and synths
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 17:51:28 (permalink)
Thanks very much for staying on this.
No I can't seem to get the MNoise generator to make a noise. (It's supposed to be placed in the tracks Fx bin right?)
I probably have to do something to the plug but I don't have a clue how to make it do anything.
I expected some kind of controls where I can define the frequency and volume but I see nothing and no presets.
I tried hitting record on the track with input echo on and it made the 2 red lines showing it's recording nothing and there was no metering so I'm not surprised nothing comes out on playback.
I froze the track and put the gate on, but nothing.
I'm obviously missing a very basic point.
It's probably I need a proper noise generator that I can understand.


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#11
dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:00:10 (permalink)
Try the Moscillator instead.  It generates sine waves.  You simply hit the keyboard in the interface for [pitch .  it plays continually if there are no other factors like gates.  I have never used it before yesterday so I am having trouble getting it to work using that process.  I can show you what i did do if you wan ta solution that I can verify works.  I'll post a simple project.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:15:40 (permalink)
I did get the Noise gen to work by clicking at stuff (AGC, Limiter, A, B, C, etc) on the bottom.
And then the master went over the top and things stopped working.
I closed and opened and installed Moscillator to the track's fx bin instead
I got some sounds with the keyboard.
Stand by
 
 


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#13
scook
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:20:55 (permalink)
The MOscillator should make noise immediately after being inserted in the FX bin of an audio track. To hear it, the input echo must be on. To change the pitch, click on the keyboard in the plug-in.
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:27:34 (permalink)
Cool!! Got it running and triggered by the kik.
I used a low C which is the key of the song.
Sounds a bit odd at this point but now I can experiment.
Thanks for sticking in there. I think this opens some doors.


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#15
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:29:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M_Glenn_M 2013/10/21 19:09:59
the other way is to just use 2 kicks and eq them, so 1 deals with lower/higher half of the sound.
 
some people will save that out.. people even use basketball thud to get the hit on a snare (misterbishi)
 
jon b (who does dnb) , didn't get side chaining , so u you can do it that way.. so you play a low hz sound to force the gap.
 
with regard to bass (not drum) , you can layer sub under subtlety under it in the form of mono sine wave also.
 
 
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scook
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:32:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M_Glenn_M 2013/10/21 19:09:42
Now that you have sound. Adjust the pitch with the MOscillator and the use the Gate input, attack, etc to adjust the shape of the triggered sound.
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:40:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby M_Glenn_M 2013/10/21 19:09:48
I made screen prints of step by step process but you got it before I could post lol.
 
Another variation of the technique Fog mentioned is to take the kick track, duplicate twice, filtering them for high, mid and low respectively.  It seems like overkill and some would argue similar results can be achieved via multiband compressor, but a number of audio engineers swear by this technique.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 18:54:38 (permalink)
weird.  I tried this with Moscillator and this happened:
 
As soon as I dropped in fx bin I got sine wave tone.  When I attempted to record to track, the end result was nothing but noise.  The gate worked fine and the sine tone returned as soon as i stopped recording.
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scook
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 19:00:54 (permalink)
That is correct. Did you try the process I detailed above http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2915580 Because effects are not recorded, recording the track will produce an empty wave. Freezing (or bouncing) the track prints the MOscillator.
 
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 19:01:13 (permalink)
  Nevermind.  I figured out what happened.  Duh, input was set to my laptop mic, so i got ambient noise instead of blank audio
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scook
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 19:02:23 (permalink)
It would not matter, the noise will be overwritten by MOscillator. The initial wave is just a placeholder. But I can see how any sound on the track would be confusing.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 19:22:23 (permalink)
Thanks.  Oddly, I tried the noise track with the gate and it gave me a very crunchy kick
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 19:54:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby dubdisciple 2013/10/21 20:03:22
The problem with the gate method is you have so little control over the envelope, which is why it sounds unnatural. Why not just trigger a synth? That would give you control over not only the sub-bass pitch but its envelope as well. 


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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/21 20:13:24 (permalink)
bitflipper.  That is the method I tend to favor but for some applications this method works well.  A good examples is when you have no interest in sounding natural.  It works great in music meant for loud dance clubs or genres where no envelope on the sub is really needed and the music genres favor long, ringing sub bass
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/22 10:57:27 (permalink)
Dub, I got the same result. A sort of click is included that I can't seem to EQ out.


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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/22 10:59:11 (permalink)
Tho I tried the keying idea on a bass that had notes held too long, triggered to a kik and it worked great.
 


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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/22 13:43:45 (permalink)
M_Glenn_M
Dub, I got the same result. A sort of click is included that I can't seem to EQ out.





Transient shaper?
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dubdisciple
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Re: Sine wave adding thump to Kik? 2013/10/22 13:46:43 (permalink)
M_Glenn_M
Dub, I got the same result. A sort of click is included that I can't seem to EQ out.




 
I only got noise when I recorded a blank track with no source (which turned out to be laptop mic since i had my interface off).  It worked fine once I froze the track.  Not sure why a sine wav would generate a click
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