steve_s
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Quantum leap!
Hi again Let me first say where I have come from! I have been using Cakewalk Home Studio 9 for at least 13 years. I used it at first to make/playback midi files and to record audio from my guitar and vocals.Lately I have just recorded audio backing tracks and then played guitar or added vocals on separate tracks. Audio from the midi tracks was from a Yamaha TG100 and I use a Yamaha CBX-K3 midi keyboard. If anyone can remember any of that stuff you must be as old as me LOL All of my audio sources are routed through a Behringer mixer to the line in of my soundcard. I also have hardware sound efx and compressor plugged into the mixer. Audio out of the computer is also routed through the mixer so that I can monitor playback tracks and listen to live recorded tracks at the same time. Does that make sense? Anyway, after upgrading the OS on my PC to Win 7, I decided to splash out on new software and decided on MC6. I really have moved into the 21st century! The good news is that the midi keyboard works fine! The rest of my equipment (perhaps apart from the mixer) seem to be redundant. I am amazed at how far things have moved on. Software synths, efx etc is just amazing (or am I just showing my age). I have even downloaded a trial of Z3eta +2. This is all a million miles from what I am used to. So can anyone advise me on the following: Is my I/O OK (via the hardware mixer).....it seems to be, but will I come up with limitations? What can I sell on ebay? LOL More importantly, where can I get good resources on using MC6, VST synths and effects etc. I am completely lost, even assigning synths, patches, effects etc to tracks. Its all so different to what I am used to. Nothing will be too simple for me! Thanks in advance Steve
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mettelus
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/27 02:50:55
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Hi there, A good place to start is the tutorials ( http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/product.aspx/Music-Creator-LE) and go from there. They help a lot by walking you through the menus and buttons so you can understand the mechanics of the GUI. As far as I/O, if you are not having latency issues, you should be fine. Are you using MC6 with an on-board audio card (Realtek)? If not having issues with that, you should be fine, but can get better processing through a dedicated I/O that goes to either FireWire or USB. Before jumping on that comment, could you help us out but giving us more insight into your system (similar to my signature)? Best regards, Michael
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/27 08:19:35
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Congrats and welcome to the future. One thing I did not see in the OP is the sound card you are using. Please clarify that. I too made a jump from CWP8 which used the internal sound card synth (GM) to MC4 and what a huge difference. I finally found the home studio solution I was seeking. In a nut shell, my system consists of a custom computer (I used a stock laptop for 4 years with MC4) and a Focusrite Saffire interface for a sound card. My custom build computer does not have a sound card except for the Saffire. I connect my midi keyboard to the Saffire and also mic straight in to the Saffire. No mixer, no preamps, because the Saffire has phantom power and nice crystal clean preamps. My guitar is either mic'd with my Rode condenser on the speaker or I use a POD2 straight into the Saffire as well. That is essentially my studio..... computer, interface, mic, and POD. Everything else is "in the box". With the advent of faster computers came all sorts of plugins for FX and VST instruments, that there is really no need to have racks full of expensive analog gear any more. Once I got my system up and running on the laptop at the very beginning, I listed ALL my mixers, tape recorders, outboard gear (reverbs, compressors, etc) and a Korg D-16 digital recorded for sale on Ebay. I never looked back nor regretted selling any of it. I think a few here actually use a small Behringer mixer in the fashion that you do. The important part is ... does it work and do the job you need it to do? If so, rock on. My system is more of a straight line.... form the gear to the DAW.... and the Saffire has outputs for my monitors.... so, while extremely simple and humble looking, it does the job I ask of it. Welcome to the future..... be sure to be a part of this forum and post your music in the Songs forum. Probably the best place to learn how to improve your skills.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/27 13:02:37
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Thanks mettelus and Guitarhacker. This is my kit : Asus P5N-E SLI Intel Quad Core Q 6600 CPU @ 2.4GHz On board audio? HD audio device 4 GB DDR RAM 667 nVidia GeForce GT9800 Just upgraded from Vista to Windows 7 MC6 Roland UM-1 Yamaha CBX-K3 midi keyboard Behringer MX1604A mixer Yamaha TG100 GM sounds TC Electronic M300 multi efx Alesis 3630 compressor Rode NT1-A Ibanez JS1000 Boss GT6 Morley wah
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mettelus
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/27 13:11:40
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The only thing that comes to mind for me with your setup is that you may have best success with a dedicated audio interface (using ASIO mode) for recording/playback. Here is a thread I just posted to, that describes his issue (using Realtek onboard audio) at a high level. http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2938050
post edited by mettelus - 2013/11/27 13:14:41
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/27 18:03:42
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Thanks for the advice. It really is only a couple of days since I downloaded MC6. I will read through the suggested tutorials, try to do a bit of recording and see if I have any real latency issues.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/28 08:27:37
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Yes.... the dedicated interface is the way to go. Be sure it uses ASIO and not the codec mess... Focusrite, Presonus, Roland, M-Audio are all decent interfaces. Using on board sound with MME drivers will be OK if you are not using synths until you get the interface. You will experience latency with synths, among other problems. Once you get a decent interface, the experience will take a few more steps into the future for you.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/28 09:28:04
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Thanks Guitarhacker. Excuse my ignorance but does the interface effectively act as a sound card then as well as allowing you to connect various audio/midi inputs to the pc? I would guess that keeping the Behringer mixer is still a good idea with the output going to the interface? Would I send the output of the interface back to the mixer too (as I do from the onboard sound card). If that is the case is a small 2 in 2 out interface all that I need? Any models you would suggest? Thanks
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57Gregy
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/28 10:30:24
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Welcome to the forum. The term audio interface refers to a high-tech sound card designed for recording and playback of multiple tracks with low latency. Many come with MIDI ports as well as various audio inputs. Some will have phantom power for those using condenser mikes. They can connect to the computer with FireWire or USB, or some can be installed in the box. The better ones will have their own ASIO drivers, rather than the legacy audio codecs which are usually not as efficient. A 2 in/out device will be sufficient for you (for now) since Music Creator can only do 2 ins and outs. Using a mixer in front of an interface is okay, if you're satisfied with it's low noise level and features. It will also allow you to keep everything connected to the interface; a turn of the mixer's channel volume control will immediately bring the instrument you're recording into the mix. I use my mixer for all my device outputs, though. I have my keyboard's MIDI connected to my interface, the keyboard's audio out connected to the mixer, the interface's output connected to the mixer, and the audio from my internet computer connected to the mixer. The mixer's plugged into my stereo reciever. When I want to record audio, I plug directly into the interface. Herb and I both have Focusrite Saffires and they've worked well for us, so we tend to recommend that brand. M-Audio, Presonus, MOTU, Roland/Cakewalk and Focusrite interfaces abound in these forums, so you have a good chance of getting a good box if you choose one of those brands. What model is your Behringer mixer? Many of their newer mixers double as audio interfaces.
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/28 12:16:28
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Thanks for the info Greg. The mixer (like most of my kit) is quite old, its a MX1604A so no usb or firewire. My set up is listed earlier in the thread.
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mettelus
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/28 19:21:21
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Hi Steve, I just purchased the Saffire PRO 24 (the Scarlet interfaces are the USB driven equivalents) recently based on feedback from this post. There are a lot of options for an audio interface, so research what suits your needs. In general, you will want one with: - ASIO drivers
- Multiple inputs (XLR, Line-In, MIDI in/out)
- Phantom Power (to drive condenser mics)
- Either USB or FireWire connection to your computer
The interface will need the USB or FW to your computer, and use can use your mixer to connect to the inputs of the interface. There is also a trick you need to know with Win7 to make it not grab your interface when it sees it turn on ( this thread may be helpful in its entirety as well). That will let you let MC6 see your interface in ASIO (exclusive) mode for the best latencies. In all honesty, with a good interface, you may find your mixer to be unnecessary, as you can record into the computer and let MC6 be your new "mixer."
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/29 08:44:31
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Now days, I would recommend a USB connection. Fire wire can be a bit problematic if the FW chips are not 100% compatible. I've not had this issue but I hear that some folks have had problems. Yes, the interface becomes the sound card for input and output. With the right interface, no mixer is needed. However, should you opt to use the mixer, that is totally fine. Yes, send it's output to the interface. Set levels accordingly. You can use the mixer for monitoring but I think you need to be careful because that could be a potential feedback loop. I recall this issue being discussed at length many years back by several here who were using the very setup you are describing. My setup, as I mentioned, is a bit simpler. The interface is the common point and no mixer is used for anything going in. I send the output of the interface directly to my studio monitors. The interface keeps the inputs totally separated from the outputs so no feedback can occur. I only have to be aware to turn the monitors off when the mics are hot. My outputs echo my inputs and the playback so I have full duplex available at all times for sync recording. What I hear in the outputs is exactly what's happening in the tracks and the mix. Have a listen to some of the music on my webpage that I have recorded using this simple setup. You might wish to consider using it as well. When I first was getting started, I wanted to have a really "cool looking" studio..... you know, with the mixing desk full of faders and knobs and flashing lights. I was planning to use my D-1600 in that way. I had very little available desk space, and after setting it up, I was having a slightly distorted sound. That's when I decided to try the mic straight in and it was crystal. The D-1600 went on E-Bay the very next day. I don't care what the studio looks like... to me, the important part is what sound quality I can get with the music. I've had a few singers come over to record some stuff, and I see a bit of disappointment in their eyes when they don't see what they are expecting to see..... but that changes when they hear what my humble studio can do.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/29 15:36:50
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Thanks for your help and advice. I'll keep the outboard stuff for now but will look at getting something like a Focusrite Scarlett ? There is no midi connection with this but presumably my UM-1 can still be used to connect my non usb midi keyboard without causing any problems?
post edited by steve_s - 2013/11/29 16:53:23
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/11/30 09:20:57
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The UM-1 should work OK as in input device for the midi keyboard and with the Scarlett using ASIO and handling the audio signals in and out..... you should be OK. Lots of keyboards these days don't have the 5 pin din connector anymore and come with a USB port built in so that would effectively work the same way.... Let us know how it goes.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/12/07 17:31:26
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This may not be the right place to ask but I'm thinking about getting the Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 interface. My firewire card has a VIA chipset (not sure which one). VIA are on the Focusrite recommended list so will I be OK? From what I have read Firewire has some pro's over usb.
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57Gregy
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/12/08 10:00:29
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While many FireWire device manufacturers recommend TI FW cards, I have a VIA in my music computer and never had any problems with it and my Saffire. I think if the VIA is on Focusrite's 'good' list, you'll be safe and will (probably) get support if there are any issues.
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mettelus
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/12/08 10:57:08
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I also had the same concern when I purchased my Saffire Pro 24 (as I have a VIA chipset as well). I have not had any issues with the PRO 24 at all. Because I had been spooked some with the "be sure it is TI" comments, I did post a link to a TI card in my #11 thread above just in case, but did not need to use it.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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steve_s
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Re: Quantum leap!
2013/12/08 18:35:06
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Thanks guys. I will go for it!
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