Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:07:36
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I just figured out how to set it all up but it is indeed rather tedious and complicated. I've already spent a LOT of time typing up comments today and don't really feel like putting in the effort it's gonna take to properly describe this process right now. Maybe later this afternoon or tomorrow.
Also after seeing what's involved and the results I'm not particularly inclined to set up a map for this project just yet. Just want to get this drum part tight enough to do my bass tracks so I'm going to keep working in the standard PRV.
Sorry.
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:10:55
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Oh and unfortunately X3 did NOT come with any premade maps for AD. Tons of other stuff in there though.
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scook
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:18:33
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See the link in my post above for an Addictive Drums map And for BFD Eco this may be of use.
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mettelus
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:18:36
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Beepster
Oh and unfortunately X3 did NOT come with any premade maps for AD. Tons of other stuff in there though.
Hey Beeps, check out post #21. The link scook provided is to not only an AD drum map, but also a track template and goodies put together by Subjacent a few months ago.
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:24:07
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scook
See the link in my post above for an Addictive Drums map
And for BFD Eco this may be of use.
Right on. There seem to be a ton of BFD maps included with X3 as it is too. Weird they didn't put some AD ones in there but they were probably just trying to get it released. Maybe next upgrade.
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 11:29:02
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mettelus
Beepster
Oh and unfortunately X3 did NOT come with any premade maps for AD. Tons of other stuff in there though.
Hey Beeps, check out post #21. The link scook provided is to not only an AD drum map, but also a track template and goodies put together by Subjacent a few months ago.
Right on. I prefer to torture myself by doing these things from scratch (helps me learn) but having access to others efforts will be good for reference. I kind of want to build one that focuses solely on the pieces and artics I'll actually use and strip out everything else. The other thing too is I normally use BFD but am using AD right now to test it out. I gotta say the default kit I'm using (one of the defaults... not THE default) with the AD internal processing engaged sounds pretty darned awesome. When I post this tune for the forum I might just leave it as is without any extra processing except maybe some bus effects so people can hear what it can do.
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rontarrant
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 14:45:24
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Jlien X
Beepster
I think he means switching maps from within the Drum Grid pane. Not within the main PRV view.
That's right.
Interestingly, until a drum map is assigned to a track, clicking on the empty drum map pane does absolutely nothing. I've been doing some research and playing around and I've figured all this stuff out again for... what..? the third time in the last seven years, I think it is. I just don't do this stuff often enough to remember these details. This time, I'm writing notes which I'll post when they're done.
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rontarrant
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 14:47:55
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Beepster
The drum maps appear as a pane within the Piano Roll View. Based on those images and the little I know about Drum Maps basically it is just the same as the PRV except instead of a keyboard with note names you have an actual kit piece name and then you assign a note to that name. So if your kick is C1 you would use the map manager or whatever and make sure the Kick is assigned to that note. Now notes entered onto the Kick line will play C1.
At least I think that's how it works.
And you have to make sure the Drum Grid Pane is visible (PV Views menu I think) and then drag it down from the top of the PRV (I think). I'll know more later after I mess with it.
Yup. You've got it. I've been digging into this as well and these are the same conclusions I've come to.
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rontarrant
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 14:52:53
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scook
Vab
All of that is just gobbeldygook to me :(
It may be all new to you now. If you work with them a bit and have the help file open to the drum map section while working them, you may find it is not that difficult. If they were I would not use them.
Yeah, I have to agree. They aren't immediately intuitive, but they aren't that difficult. A couple of hours of banging your head on the screen and you'll have it. 
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stevec
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 14:55:59
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/01/23 15:31:45
FWIW, the only time I use a Drum Map is when I want a single MIDI clip/track that triggers multiple synths; e.g., Kick from AD, snare from SD, cymbals from BFD Eco, etc. The Drum Map literally "maps" each PRV note to the desired synth and MIDI note number. It may not be the most intuitive tool in SONAR, but it's pretty cool for what it does.
Years ago someone also had an example of doing this for something other than drums, but unfortunately I don't recall the details.
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brundlefly
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 15:27:21
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/01/23 15:32:06
Yes, "Drum map" is kind of a limiting description. Really it's an all-purpose port, channel and note number mapping tool that can also add velocity offset and scaling. You can use it to create keyboard splits to different synths or channels of a multi-timbral synth, or to alter the effective velocity curve or note range of a controller to work with a particular synth/patch, or to remap keyswitches to another part of the keyboard, etc.
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Vab
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 17:29:35
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I already tried downloading and installing a track template with AD drum maps, but when I load it I got no sound and couldn't figure out how to get it to output sound, and I just went ahead and redid my session drummer drum tracks into AD manually with note names in the AD clips instead of drums.
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stevec
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/23 21:01:20
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I don't know if this helps, but you can think of a Drum Map as a "routing" of sorts. The note you click on in the PRV is routed to a specific synth, using a specific channel and MIDI note number. So, you need to make sure that channel and MIDI note number are valid for that instrument... and of course that the instrument exists in the project.
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 08:43:06
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stevec
I don't know if this helps, but you can think of a Drum Map as a "routing" of sorts. The note you click on in the PRV is routed to a specific synth, using a specific channel and MIDI note number. So, you need to make sure that channel and MIDI note number are valid for that instrument... and of course that the instrument exists in the project.
Hmm... that brings a lot more depth to all this. No wonder the darned thing is so complex. Now my brain is going in all sorts of different directions on its uses. And I thought I had it all figured out. D'oh. ;-)
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stevec
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 11:42:51
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Beepster
stevec
I don't know if this helps, but you can think of a Drum Map as a "routing" of sorts. The note you click on in the PRV is routed to a specific synth, using a specific channel and MIDI note number. So, you need to make sure that channel and MIDI note number are valid for that instrument... and of course that the instrument exists in the project.
Hmm... that brings a lot more depth to all this. No wonder the darned thing is so complex. Now my brain is going in all sorts of different directions on its uses. And I thought I had it all figured out. D'oh. ;-)
Hey, as long as you don't implode you should be OK.  As Dave mentioned there are things you can do beyond pure "routing", but I find it best to get that foundation down first so that the other stuff makes sense in context. It is a powerful tool. If anything, the UI/workflow just needs a little TLC!
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 11:55:07
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Well one of the first things that jumped out at me is the need to type in a MIDI note number with no option of using actually note/oct#... unless I'm missing something. Not a big deal but it will make it a little more tedious for me what with havin' to do all the mathz and countin' and such.
This is obviously easier for dudes who've been using MIDI for a long time... and who aren't as slow with basic number type things like ole Beeps here. :-/
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 12:03:33
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Oh but on the hardware end of things, if this applies, I notice that the velocity range stuff might make it a lot easier for me to use my first gen DX-7 which has that pre standard velocity output. I'm assuming I could create a map with appropriate settings and turn that 110 range (or whatever it is) to be more evenly spread over the 127 range. Then I'd (in theory) apply the map to whatever track I want to record into with the old Yammie.
I could also see it being useful with my padKontrol when doing drum beats. Like limiting the velocities to more upper range stuff so I don't get the occasionally "way too low" velocity hits which then need to be corrected later while retaining the variations of a live performance.
I was going to do this type of thing in the Track Inspector on a case by case basis or create a preset but a map sounds like a much better way to deal with it all.
That is... of course... if that IS indeed possible with the Drum Map thingie. If not I'd appreciate someone stating otherwise so I don't get myself all excited for nothing.
;-)
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scook
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 12:11:48
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Beepster
Oh but on the hardware end of things, if this applies, I notice that the velocity range stuff might make it a lot easier for me to use my first gen DX-7 which has that pre standard velocity output. I'm assuming I could create a map with appropriate settings and turn that 110 range (or whatever it is) to be more evenly spread over the 127 range. Then I'd (in theory) apply the map to whatever track I want to record into with the old Yammie.
midiCurve may be a solution for the DX-7 issue
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 12:26:16
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Thanks. I've gotten a few suggestions for third party stuff (from yourself as well and I thank you) but even if the Drum Map feature won't handle I think I've got a pretty decent plan with some of the built in controls in Sonar.
The one I was originally going to use for the DX-7 was to simply increase the velocity input by 17 (or whatever the discrepancy works out to) so the bottom velocities just aren't available because for 99% of what I'd be doing I don't think I'll be needing those and if I DO want to play something really delicate and quiet I can redo the settings or edit it later.
But does this mean that the Drum Maps won't spread the 110 range over the full 127 or, if not, duplicate the input scenario I described above (cutting off the lower 17)?
I do also have a modern 25 key controller if it is absolutely necessary for full velocity needs which I generally use anyway but I would like to become a proficient keyboard player because... well it's nerdy and cool. I even have a thin black tie and a fedora to wear while I play which makes things sound even cooler. ;-)
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scook
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 12:32:05
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Yeah, I remember the old post. This plug-in looked interesting because it has the ability to create a velocity curve.
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Beepster
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Re: The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?
2014/01/24 12:54:30
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Indeed but you know me and third party stuff. I get confused enough as it is with what I've got so unless I REALLY need it (which in this case I probably don't... just NEED the upper range which is doable within Sonar) it doesn't get installed.
I actually haven't even hooked the bugger up yet even though it's sitting there on my desk ready to go with all the cabling at the ready. I just haven't done anything that needed a longer scale set of keys. Many of my lofty goals and ideas get drastically widdled back down to more practical usage once I start digging in.
Eventually there will be some fancy piano parts though... eventually.
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