The Reasoning Behind PRV Modes: Can Someone Explain, Please?

Hi, ron...
 
I have yet to use drum maps (but I am currently learning why one would want to use one because of my current drum editing shenanigans) so I'm not sure about this but I seem to recall seeing a Drum Map option in the PRV context menus at the top right of the PRV.  I'm not booted up though or may have been hallucinating that AND if it does exist I don't know if it'll do what you want but I would look there. I'm thinking under "Views". Maybe that just makes the window available but doesn't pop it open. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding the question which is the most likely scenario.
 
As far as the Record modes I think you are pretty much stuck with the mode selected VIA the Record button or Preferences and it is AFAIK global. Might be difficult to write the necessary code to make it a track per track option and I could see that possibly causing a lot of bugs/weird behavior. Still that's a cool idea if they could get it working.
 
Cheers.

BeepsterI seem to recall seeing a Drum Map option in the PRV context menus at the top right of the PRV.

I explored that area fairly thoroughly just now and didn't see anything, but I know what you mean. It kind of rings a bell for me, too.

BeepsterI'm thinking under "Views".

That was my first thought way back when I first started pondering all this, but that seems to be all about note resolution and stuff like that.

BeepsterOr perhaps I am misunderstanding the question which is the most likely scenario.

 I don't think so, Beep. Changing the left-hand 'side-bar' thing from piano keys to a meaningful drum map and back again. That's pretty much what I'm talking about and I get the impression that's what you're talking about, too.

BeepsterAs far as the Record modes I think you are pretty much stuck with the mode selected VIA the Record button or Preferences and it is AFAIK global.

Yeah, I was afraid that. Well, maybe not afraid, but nervous... jumpy...?

BeepsterMight be difficult to write the necessary code to make it a track per track option and I could see that possibly causing a lot of bugs/weird behavior.

I don't know either. It's been far too long since I've done any coding and Windows UI is something I've rarely had to code. It also depends on how object-oriented the code is and whether or not they're even using an OO language. It's a question only one of the (what do they call them on here? Bakers?) bakers could answer.

BeepsterStill that's a cool idea if they could get it working.

Thanks. I thought so, too.
 
And if it's going to be a universal set-in-one-place-for-everywhere type of thing, a colour-coded window border would be a nice reminder of which mode I'm in (red for comping, blue for sound on sound and yellow for overdub... that kind of thing). And if it ever can be set on a track-by-track basis, colour-coding the borders of the tracks could distinguish modes there, too. I've seen this kind of thing used to good effect in other software.
 

Hi, Julien. SoS should indeed have worked in that scenario (he was referencing my thread BTW) and it did briefly without my knowledge BUT it stopped working. I think something was bugging out on my system or something. It was a trying afternoon. I got it all sorted out though. Cheers.

Jlien X
Hi Beep. Sorry, I didn't have time to read that thread. I haven't explored comping mode yet, but I've just tried the steps above using comping mode and I still see no problem (maybe I will if I try more?).
Btw, you can drop u because I'm actually not Julien. 

 
Oh... lol. Sorry about that.
 
You know I was going to try explaining what was going on and getting you to try the "Hide Muted" option but now that I'm thinking about it more none of it makes any real sense the way it was happening to me. Trying to gather my thoughts on how to explain it but I think something is definitely going weird with my project or something.
 
Edit: Just for clarification in the steps below I am manually entering MIDI notes into the PRV using Alt + Click or double click with the Smart Tool selected.
 
So here's the deal. I had created a flattened comp and cloned it to give it its own track and deleted everything else.
 
I created a copy of the flatten comp so I could use it to compare the original with whatever edits I made. I Muted the lane AND the clip of the original.
 
I selected Hide Muted Notes from the PRV context menu so the original clip (now muted) would not appear in the PRV.
 
I selected the clip I wanted to edit > Right Click > Views > PRV (or alternatively double click the clip).
 
Sure enough only the notes in that clip were visible and the notes responded to editing.
 
So that's the first part of the recipe. Here's where it gets weird.
 
When I'd enter NEW notes in Comping mode they would be visible in the PRV but not play. I could see the new notes appearing in the PARENT track but not in the selected clip. No new Take Lane was appearing.
 
I switched to SoS, inputted some notes and they WERE audible but still not appearing in the clip. Only in the parent track. I still hadn't fully grasped what was going on so thought I had solved the problem. I close the project without saving and reopened it to get back to my starting point. Now SoS wasn't working.
 
Now I mentioned that I saw the new notes in the Parent track but actually I had NOT. I didn't figure that out until this point of my struggles BUT this is reliably produceable behavior so I know it was happening. Just tossed those in there for clarity. After doing some tests to find out WHERE the new notes were going is when I saw them going into the parent track but not the clip(s).
 
So I tried closing and reopening the Lanes section and TA DA!!! there was a new lane with a new clip that contained the new notes. However the Take Lane Mute button was engaged making them inaudible.
 
Let's ignore SoS mode for a second. Now initially I figured that in Comping mode this made sense because Comping mutes all other takes and solos new material but that DOESN'T make sense because then would the new notes in the new lane in the new clip be audible and the clip I was working on get muted? This is muting the NEW material so it does not follow Comp mode's expected behavior.
 
Now for SoS... this should leave both the original take and the new notes audible but I only managed to get that to work once and it was before I figured out the lane thing. I did check again quickly after realizing that a new lane was being created and that new lane had indeed been muted.
 
I have not yet tried Overwrite to see how it behaves but I am assuming it would either allow me to input new notes without a new lane or effecting the other notes OR it would delete any notes at that same point on the timeline. If it is the latter it may indeed be the better option for this type of touch up editing.
 
So maybe it's just this project or my system or I've got a weird setting or I'm forcing Sonar to work in weird ways that the Bakers didn't anticipate or maybe I found a bug.
 
I know you like to explore these types of things so there is the recipe and the results.

I think he means switching maps from within the Drum Grid pane. Not within the main PRV view.

Vab
I still havnt been able to figure out how to use drum maps, and it seemed easier to just remember which notes correspond to which drum.

I felt the same way but now that I am doing some intensive MIDI drum editing I can see how it would be useful. If I want to see the entire kit in the standard PRV window I have to zoom out vertically. Then the notes are super small and hard to work with and the distance between the Kick and the cymbal hits is far enough that it is difficult to line them up correctly.
 
I may try and figure them out today because of this.

Hey people, are you guys really Sonar users? Use drum maps! The drum map editor in Sonar is very good (probably not as good as the one in Cubase, though) and not all daws have it. In fact, it's one of the most requested features in the Studio One forum. And, yes, it IS possible to hide unused notes.
 
(edit: Not quite "hide." "Delete" is the right word.)

Jlien X
Hey people, are you guys really Sonar users? Use drum maps! The drum map editor in Sonar is very good (probably not as good as the one in Cubase, though) and not all daws have it. In fact, it's one of the most requested features in the Studio One forum. And, yes, it IS possible to hide unused notes.

Ah, okay. The reason I never bothered before was because on my last project it seemed unnecessary and the whole concept of drum maps confused the heck out of me. I thought it pertained mostly to hardware (kind of like ACT which confuses me as well). I realize now that is not necessarily the case. More of an alternative way to view and edit MIDI data.
 
Another reason is I keep seeing threads where people mention their drum maps screwing up so that made me shy away from them as well. Had too many other problems and things I barely understood to toss another log on the fire.

Beepster
I think he means switching maps from within the Drum Grid pane. Not within the main PRV view.

 
That's right. 
 

Vab
But where are / how do you use the drum maps?

Why does AD have to default to using notes?

The drum maps appear as a pane within the Piano Roll View. Based on those images and the little I know about Drum Maps basically it is just the same as the PRV except instead of a keyboard with note names you have an actual kit piece name and then you assign a note to that name. So if your kick is C1 you would use the map manager or whatever and make sure the Kick is assigned to that note. Now notes entered onto the Kick line will play C1.
 
At least I think that's how it works.
 
And you have to make sure the Drum Grid Pane is visible (PV Views menu I think) and then drag it down from the top of the PRV (I think). I'll know more later after I mess with it.

All of that is just gobbeldygook to me :(

Vab
All of that is just gobbeldygook to me :(

Think of it this way.
 
Your MIDI track gets pointed to a map.
 
The map points to your synth.
 
You enter data into the Drum Grid, it goes to the map then to the synth.
 
That other stuff just means the map gets stored in a folder on your computer like a project template does.
 
This may however be a case of the blind leading the blind here because I haven't used one yet... but that is how I am interpreting what has been said here and the manual entries I skimmed yesterday (which are a little confusing).
 
 

Beepster
 I am interpreting what has been said here and the manual entries I skimmed yesterday (which are a little confusing).

This may be a case where it might be easier to actually try it than read about it. They are pretty straight forward. The tedious bit is creating large maps from scratch. Fortunately there are a lot of presets included with SONAR and others made by users out on the net.

scook
 
...work with them a bit and have the help file open to the drum map section while working them, you may find it is not that difficult...

I find that this is so true of many aspects in any DAW. I try very hard to open the manual (or Scott's book) and have it there as a reference and then walk through the steps when I try to learn something new. I try very hard to do this before I go around the bend in frustration.
 
Regards,

One important trick to remember: To change the Out Port of multiple notes at once in the Drum Map Manager, first select the notes whose output port you want to change and then hold down Ctrl+Shift and choose the desired output port from the drop-down of one of the selected notes. 
 
 
 
(edit: this also applies to the Chn column)