Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects

Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
Stabenator
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2
  • Joined: 2014/02/04 04:52:57
  • Location: Australia
  • Status: offline
2014/02/04 06:24:22 (permalink)

Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects

Has anyone had the problem of their Waves plugins not retaining the adjustments they've made to a setting when opening a project in X3?
 
I have the Manny Maroquin bundle and Silver bundle and have saved presets for my effects chains in plugins such as the Mono MM Distortion and some MM delays. When I have finished a mix and save and close the project and re-open it, the settings have gone back to a default and I have to then manually go through all the plugins and reload my customised presets. It's quite time consuming!
 
I have had Waves tech support look at my computer remotely and they are sure that the plugins are working properly, and suspect that it's a Sonar issue. I haven't heard back from Cakewalk support as yet. 
 
What I need is for my projects to open in the state I last left them. I am using Windows 7 operating system, Sonar X3 Producer (32bit version), and the Waves plugins. I have installed all the X3 updates.
 
Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Steve
www.squeakermusic.com
#1
Waves, Sonar X3 Producer, vst, Plugins

14 Replies Related Threads
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 07:09:39 (permalink)
    Hello Steve and welcome...
     
     
    After a giant discussion on a previous thread here what you need to know; Waves should (hopefully) be working on a fix:
     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk

    I have debugged this issue and the root problem is that the preset mechanism in several VST3 plugins is not fully implemented according to the VST3 spec. Presets can be changed in a bi-directional way - via the plugin UI or from the host UI. When the host sends a preset change request the plugin should change its preset and update its UI and internal state. Conversely when a preset is changed from the plugin UI it is up to the plugin to send a notification to the host to allow it to sync up its state and UI to the plugin. What is broken here is that the plugin's are not sending the notification back to SONAR and this puts it out of sync. Now when you save the project we save the state that SONAR knows about which is incorrect and when you load it back you get the incorrect state that you are seeing.
     
    In the case of Waves plugins it appears that they never update the current program state when it is changed from their internal UI. I have reported this to their engineering team for review.
    In the case of DMG plugins they do update the current state, but never notify the app so we don't know it was changed.
    I have passed on information to both DMG and Waves about how to send back a preset change notification to the host.
    See the section on Bi-Directional setting of programs here.
     
    Additionally I have added some failsafe code for the next update to prevent settings being lost even if the preset is out of sync (the UI will display the wrong preset name but the plugin state will always be intact when you load a project). I've also added code to make the bidirectional communication work using a different method. This also translates to VST2 so its nice that VST2 plugins will also stay in sync when presets are changed from the plugin UI.


     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    X3D implemented full support for VST3 factory preset management which is a new feature that didn't exist in X3C. When we did that it exposed problems with bi-directional support with some VST3 plugins.
    I have already reported the issue to Waves with full details. Keep in mind that the workaround in SONAR will prevent the wrong settings being loaded but won't fix the problem with preset changes in the plugin not updating the host. So the preset picker will be out of sync until that is fixed from the plugin side.

     
    Hope this helps...
     
    Thanks..

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #2
    mudgel
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 12010
    • Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
    • Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 07:16:26 (permalink)
    So in the interim the way to manage your presets is to use the plugins own preset picker to open existing ones and save your own presets.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

    STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
    PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz.
    Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2.
    Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub.
    Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX.
    Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor.
    Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
    #3
    Guitarmech111
    Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5085
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
    • Location: Bayou City, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 10:21:02 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Hello Steve and welcome...
     
     
    After a giant discussion on a previous thread here what you need to know; Waves should (hopefully) be working on a fix:
     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk

    I have debugged this issue and the root problem is that the preset mechanism in several VST3 plugins is not fully implemented according to the VST3 spec. Presets can be changed in a bi-directional way - via the plugin UI or from the host UI. When the host sends a preset change request the plugin should change its preset and update its UI and internal state. Conversely when a preset is changed from the plugin UI it is up to the plugin to send a notification to the host to allow it to sync up its state and UI to the plugin. What is broken here is that the plugin's are not sending the notification back to SONAR and this puts it out of sync. Now when you save the project we save the state that SONAR knows about which is incorrect and when you load it back you get the incorrect state that you are seeing.
     
    In the case of Waves plugins it appears that they never update the current program state when it is changed from their internal UI. I have reported this to their engineering team for review.
    In the case of DMG plugins they do update the current state, but never notify the app so we don't know it was changed.
    I have passed on information to both DMG and Waves about how to send back a preset change notification to the host.
    See the section on Bi-Directional setting of programs here.
     
    Additionally I have added some failsafe code for the next update to prevent settings being lost even if the preset is out of sync (the UI will display the wrong preset name but the plugin state will always be intact when you load a project). I've also added code to make the bidirectional communication work using a different method. This also translates to VST2 so its nice that VST2 plugins will also stay in sync when presets are changed from the plugin UI.


     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    X3D implemented full support for VST3 factory preset management which is a new feature that didn't exist in X3C. When we did that it exposed problems with bi-directional support with some VST3 plugins.
    I have already reported the issue to Waves with full details. Keep in mind that the workaround in SONAR will prevent the wrong settings being loaded but won't fix the problem with preset changes in the plugin not updating the host. So the preset picker will be out of sync until that is fixed from the plugin side.

     
    Hope this helps...
     
    Thanks..


    Waves AND Cakewalk are both working on this.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
    PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 

     
    Without a mess, there is no message
    #4
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 10:26:43 (permalink)
    This bit Cakewalk is working on is in bold, what Cake is doing is an enhancement to workaround buggy plugin code:
    (it's all in Noel's quote anyway), it's unlikely to "fix" the full issue however.
     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk

    I have debugged this issue and the root problem is that the preset mechanism in several VST3 plugins is not fully implemented according to the VST3 spec. Presets can be changed in a bi-directional way - via the plugin UI or from the host UI. When the host sends a preset change request the plugin should change its preset and update its UI and internal state. Conversely when a preset is changed from the plugin UI it is up to the plugin to send a notification to the host to allow it to sync up its state and UI to the plugin. What is broken here is that the plugin's are not sending the notification back to SONAR and this puts it out of sync. Now when you save the project we save the state that SONAR knows about which is incorrect and when you load it back you get the incorrect state that you are seeing.
     
    In the case of Waves plugins it appears that they never update the current program state when it is changed from their internal UI. I have reported this to their engineering team for review.
    In the case of DMG plugins they do update the current state, but never notify the app so we don't know it was changed.
    I have passed on information to both DMG and Waves about how to send back a preset change notification to the host.
    See the section on Bi-Directional setting of programs here.
     
    Additionally I have added some failsafe code for the next update to prevent settings being lost even if the preset is out of sync (the UI will display the wrong preset name but the plugin state will always be intact when you load a project). I've also added code to make the bidirectional communication work using a different method. This also translates to VST2 so its nice that VST2 plugins will also stay in sync when presets are changed from the plugin UI.


     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    X3D implemented full support for VST3 factory preset management which is a new feature that didn't exist in X3C. When we did that it exposed problems with bi-directional support with some VST3 plugins.
    I have already reported the issue to Waves with full details. Keep in mind that the workaround in SONAR will prevent the wrong settings being loaded but won't fix the problem with preset changes in the plugin not updating the host. So the preset picker will be out of sync until that is fixed from the plugin side.

     
    Hope this helps...
     
    Thanks..




    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #5
    Guitarmech111
    Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5085
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
    • Location: Bayou City, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 10:53:32 (permalink)
    Alex, Cakewalk IS working on this regardless of what you try to say. They are trying to prevent issues from coming up in the future. I hope this helps...

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
    PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 

     
    Without a mess, there is no message
    #6
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 11:13:37 (permalink)
    By the look of it what I said in my last post is exactly the same as what you said in your follow up post :)
    So we agree! (Anyway what Ryan said forget what we say).
     
    Cheers!

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #7
    Guitarmech111
    Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5085
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
    • Location: Bayou City, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 11:18:49 (permalink)
    good! I am not in for another marathon thread...
     
    The only thing that bugged me was that you eluded to Waves being at fault when in reality, we do not know the total story. We do not know if CW informed Waves that the VST3 preset standard would be fully implemented in, or prior to, X3D or if Waves knew and chose not to have it fixed yet. That is why I said BOTH CW and Waves are working on it. I do not care to place blame, but I do think it is best to place the issue squarely on BOTH parties, not just Waves until we know different.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
    PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 

     
    Without a mess, there is no message
    #8
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 11:24:13 (permalink)
    > until we know different.
     
    Well what know is what Ryan said which is pretty clear cut as to where the fault lies. If there is a difference of opinion then I would expect Waves to speak up, somehow I doubt that is going to happen. Us being judge and jury about this is a little futile as none of us have the source code, and nor will we ever (well maybe in 30 years). We shall see what happens but speculating won't help matters, I'm listening to what has been said by Cake right now and I have no reason to doubt them.
     
    > good! I am not in for another marathon thread
     
    Anyway yes please no more last word thing.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #9
    Guitarmech111
    Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5085
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
    • Location: Bayou City, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 11:43:40 (permalink)
    ok

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
    PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 

     
    Without a mess, there is no message
    #10
    bapu
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 86000
    • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
    • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 21:45:02 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    ok


    Great it looks like you boys FINALLY got a room?

    My name is Ed. I Am still bapu though.
    My Studio
     
    www.beyondmydaw.com
     
    The Forum Monkeys
    BJZ
    BBZ 
    The Coffee House Collaborators 
    Fizzy Pickle
    The Coffee House Band
    Stan Dupp and The Jennifer Tillies
    BAPU
    #11
    bapu
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 86000
    • Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
    • Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 21:45:09 (permalink)
    Guitarmech111
    ok


    Great it looks like you boys FINALLY got a room?

    My name is Ed. I Am still bapu though.
    My Studio
     
    www.beyondmydaw.com
     
    The Forum Monkeys
    BJZ
    BBZ 
    The Coffee House Collaborators 
    Fizzy Pickle
    The Coffee House Band
    Stan Dupp and The Jennifer Tillies
    BAPU
    #12
    Stabenator
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2
    • Joined: 2014/02/04 04:52:57
    • Location: Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/04 22:21:14 (permalink)
    Thanks everyone.
     
    So in short, is there a way that I can prevent this from happening at this stage? My take on all this is that it's being worked on but the problem remains? I'm almost thinking of leaving Waves plugins out of the picture all together for this project. I did a full reinstall of my operating system, DAW and plugins and in the process lost many of my presets anyway. I don't fully know where my mixes are anymore :( 
     
    As Mike V said: "So in the interim the way to manage your presets is to use the plugins own preset picker to open existing ones and save your own presets."
     
    I had been doing this but it wasn't eliminating the need to go through and re-select all of my presets whenever I opened a project. 5-10 plugins per project say, it gets really annoying to say the least. I really did not expect this from a brand new DAW and latest version plugin bundles that are so widely used.
    #13
    Splat
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8672
    • Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
    • Location: Mars.
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/05 05:49:17 (permalink)
    Either that or try rolling back to X3C. No other solutions to offer sorry.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #14
    Guitarmech111
    Max Output Level: -24.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5085
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 10:18:53
    • Location: Bayou City, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Waves plugins not retaining my custom presets in Sonar X3 Projects 2014/02/06 10:46:07 (permalink)
    I rolled back to X3C. That does solve it. It I not that much trouble to create presets in the waves dialog for the interim while waiting for a patch.

    Peace,
    Conley Shepherd
    Joyful Noise Productions
    PC config: (Win performance base score = 7.7) ASUS Sabertooth 990 FX -amd fx-8150 - core processor am3+ - 32G Corsair 1066 DDR3 - PNY GTX670 2g gddr5 - Corsair Force SSD 120G - Samsung 750G SATA drives - WD 1tb Black (Audio files) - WD 2TB for storage - RME UFX - USB ASIO 2/2016 drivers Win8 

     
    Without a mess, there is no message
    #15
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1