Keni
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Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
I've had to do a lot of vocal editing lately...
I know Melodyne is supposed to be the holy grail, but I just can't accomplish as much work let alone as quickly with it as I can V-Vocal...
I know VV has problems of it's own, but it gives me so much more power/ability than the included version of Melodyne... Maybe I'd like it better if I could afford the upgrade, but I'm unsure that this would give me what I would want... I know I'd love the polyphonic capability (I am a guitarist first, eh?), but it seems too limited for me... Simple things like the spread control does not have the range that the spread tool does in VV...
Am I missing something? Is it something I'm not understanding of the UI yet?
Anyway...
Thanks for keeping VV with us....
Keni
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Anderton
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 13:21:47
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I find the "full" version of V-Vocal more useful than the "lite" version of Melodyne. But the full version of Melodyne is quite powerful.
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Geo524
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 13:46:39
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Yup. I like VV better than the lite version of Melodyne. I'm sure Melodyne (full version) is much better but VV has always worked well for me and I'm just use to it.
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garrigus
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 13:50:10
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 14:04:23
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Anderton
I find the "full" version of V-Vocal more useful than the "lite" version of Melodyne. But the full version of Melodyne is quite powerful.
Thanks Craig... Does the Full version of Melodyne have a larger range of control for spread? That's a tool I use a lot and I find the Melodyne spread control very limited... I also do some drawing wave forms for certain situations... I haven't gotten as far as looking for that in Melodyne yet as I seem to end up returning to VV before I get that deep... ;-) Keni
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bitflipper
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 17:05:04
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☄ Helpfulby joel77 2014/02/23 11:34:14
Full Melodyne can do everything V-Vocal can do, and then some. It's especially adept at drawing in pitch transitions, something you have to do with great care in V-V in order to avoid artifacts but is transparent in Melodyne. Even drastic changes. Melodyne's paradigm is different and not as immediately intuitive as V-V, but once you get going it's quite fast to work with.
That said, I have to admit that I still use V-V more often than Melodyne, reserving the latter for only the most critical parts. V-V is just so darn convenient.
Of course, the secret to pitch correction is a) get it right into the microphone at the start, and b) don't sweat the small stuff. I actually use zero pitch-correction on most tunes these days, or only a couple tweaks here and there. The trick is to not look at those little lines. They make you think that edits are necessary, whether they really are or not.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/22 17:24:35
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I'm not sure I get what you mean with "spread" control. I don't recall a control with that name in VV but it's possible I just always called it something else in my head. I've had the opposite experience, by the way, where I get much better results much quicker with Melodyne than with VV. I do have the full version though.
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bobbyswamp
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 01:50:55
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bitflipper
...Of course, the secret to pitch correction is a) get it right into the microphone at the start, and b) don't sweat the small stuff. I actually use zero pitch-correction on most tunes these days, or only a couple tweaks here and there. The trick is to not look at those little lines. They make you think that edits are necessary, whether they really are or not.
Well said...
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Splat 
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 11:21:38
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 11:31:55
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Alex, I do not feel like buying a product to see what someone is trying to explain. Is there a free version to watch what you did?
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Splat
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 11:51:43
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Guitarmech111
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 12:07:59
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stevec
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 13:16:06
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Sanderxpander
I'm not sure I get what you mean with "spread" control. I don't recall a control with that name in VV but it's possible I just always called it something else in my head.
I was wondering about that one too. I used VVocal for years with decent results. But since I got Melodyne Editor on sale when S1 introduced ARA, I've only used VVocal a handful of times at best. And that was for the timing tools which approach expansion/compression entirely different than Melodyne. For anything related to pitch, it's all Melodyne for me.
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townstra
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/23 19:05:55
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I went ahead and picked up the full version of Melodyne and it is a huge improvement over version that was included in X3 and I like it a lot more than VV also.
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olemon
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 07:34:36
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I used V V to edit pitch and adjust amplitude on my last few projects. Now that I'm familiar with it, it is quick and easy. The Melodyne interface confuses me a bit, but it's really just a matter of getting used to it. After reading this thread, I'm motivated to do that.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 08:07:05
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The original Meldyne did exactly what it was supposed to do... very, very well!
The newer DNA version has never worked as simply or effectively for me. It usually seems to smart for its own good.
I wish I could still run the old version even though I have had the DNA version of Editor and the benefit of its updates for a couple years.
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 13:38:19
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bitflipper
Full Melodyne can do everything V-Vocal can do, and then some. It's especially adept at drawing in pitch transitions, something you have to do with great care in V-V in order to avoid artifacts but is transparent in Melodyne. Even drastic changes. Melodyne's paradigm is different and not as immediately intuitive as V-V, but once you get going it's quite fast to work with.
That said, I have to admit that I still use V-V more often than Melodyne, reserving the latter for only the most critical parts. V-V is just so darn convenient.
Of course, the secret to pitch correction is a) get it right into the microphone at the start, and b) don't sweat the small stuff. I actually use zero pitch-correction on most tunes these days, or only a couple tweaks here and there. The trick is to not look at those little lines. They make you think that edits are necessary, whether they really are or not.
Thanks bitflipper... This piques my curiosity of Melodyne Editor even more... What could it possibly do (other than polyphony) that VV does not? I too find VV good and expedient and have done some amazing things with it... the limited version of Melodyne is almost useless to my other than it's simple and accurate audio>MIDI conversion so well implemented in Sonar... I've had to do a bit of drum replacement from audio tracks to MIDI samples lately and that feature is wonderful! So, maybe you can answer my originally intended question... Does Editor allw more extensive spread control range? I do pitch correction wherever and whenever my clients or I are bothered by an issue. I don't do it off the bat or for whole performances... A little bit of human goes a long way! (Tho a Lot of human goes too far! ;-)) Keni
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 13:40:38
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Sanderxpander
I'm not sure I get what you mean with "spread" control. I don't recall a control with that name in VV but it's possible I just always called it something else in my head. I've had the opposite experience, by the way, where I get much better results much quicker with Melodyne than with VV. I do have the full version though.
It is not called that in VV... It took me some searching to find it in Melodyne until I realized that "spread" was what I was after... In VV, it's the tool that allows you to adjust the range of pitch closer (or farther?) from it's center... I don't recall what they call it but it's the 3rd or 4th tool down... Keni
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AlKal
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 14:43:25
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I believe this is called "Range" in Melodyne and you can adjust it from 0 to 100%
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 17:46:41
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Keni
Sanderxpander
I'm not sure I get what you mean with "spread" control. I don't recall a control with that name in VV but it's possible I just always called it something else in my head. I've had the opposite experience, by the way, where I get much better results much quicker with Melodyne than with VV. I do have the full version though.
It is not called that in VV... It took me some searching to find it in Melodyne until I realized that "spread" was what I was after...
In VV, it's the tool that allows you to adjust the range of pitch closer (or farther?) from it's center... I don't recall what they call it but it's the 3rd or 4th tool down...
Keni
Still confused, but I'm not at my computer right now. Pitch drift possibly? Or pitch modulation depth?
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AlKal
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 17:55:51
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My guess is that he’s is talking about “quantizing” to a pitch gird or scale. The Range in Melodyne (or “spread” as the OP refers to it) is how close you want to get on the exact pitch.
AlKal ------ Sonar Platinum, DimPro, Rapture Pro, Z3ta+2; NI Ultimate 10; EZ Drummer; AAS Tassman 4, Lounge Lizard EP-4, Ultra Analog Session w various sound banks; MOTU UltraLite Mk3; Axiom 61 Gen2; Yamaha Motif ES6, MX61, DX7IIFD; iPAD Gen1 w Xewton Music Studio and lots of synth apps
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rontarrant
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 20:18:46
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When I was considering the upgrade, I looked at what I do musically and how useful the full version of Melodyne would be to me. The conclusion I came to was that the only time I'd really need it would be if my guitar were out of tune and frankly, it's far cheaper to tune the damn guitar.
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Splat
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 20:51:22
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I got it because our guitarist was sh*t and didn't know it.
It happily has a "remove crap guitar part" button, and also has a "play a guitar part without wrong notes" button as well. Sadly it also has a "increase guitarist smugness" button (I didn't tell him I used it).
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 21:35:59
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Sanderxpander
Keni
Sanderxpander
I'm not sure I get what you mean with "spread" control. I don't recall a control with that name in VV but it's possible I just always called it something else in my head. I've had the opposite experience, by the way, where I get much better results much quicker with Melodyne than with VV. I do have the full version though.
It is not called that in VV... It took me some searching to find it in Melodyne until I realized that "spread" was what I was after...
In VV, it's the tool that allows you to adjust the range of pitch closer (or farther?) from it's center... I don't recall what they call it but it's the 3rd or 4th tool down...
Keni
Still confused, but I'm not at my computer right now. Pitch drift possibly? Or pitch modulation depth?
In VV it's called the LFO Tool (I just looked)... I use this a lot when I do pitch correction and it appears that it is the equivalent tool of what Melodyne calls "spread" via a pop up dialog box... Keni
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 21:41:57
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AlKal
My guess is that he’s is talking about “quantizing” to a pitch gird or scale. The Range in Melodyne (or “spread” as the OP refers to it) is how close you want to get on the exact pitch.
No... I don't use quantize... But the LFO tool in VV allows you to tighten the pitch to its center... Lessening the range a pitch drifts about its center... Like a pitch compressor... In Melodyne they call that spread and in the same dialog they also have a tool for adjusting that overall range to how centered it is on the pitch as opposed to hitting the pitch at its peak (upper or lower)... I simply do that manually in VV as I decide how I want the pitch to occur... I find a lot of cleaning up pitch issues often is corrected by tightening the range. Thereby allowing the humanity of the shifting to remain, but forcing it to be closer to the pitch... Keni
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/24 21:47:11
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I have wished for the polyphonic correction a number of times... It's not all that infrequent for a properly tuned guitar to have an off note/pitch due to intonation or hand-strangled notes.... I still wish for it but I can't afford the upgrade... I hope someday I will.
So far I prefer using VV, but having the polyphonic ability would be a handy tool to have...
Speaking of Melodyne (;-))....... Is there a way to turn off the audible sound while moving pitches? At the moment that sounds awful to me... And I don't remember if it can be disabled...
Keni
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/25 03:17:40
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Ok then I think you mean the pitch modulation tool. Melodyne doesn't allow you to create vibrato where there is none. Instead it amplifies or dims the natural vibrato. This allows for a more natural sounding vibrato, though it is true that sometimes it would be nice to use a custom LFO to "draw" vibrato anywhere you want it.
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Keni
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/25 15:33:40
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Sanderxpander
Ok then I think you mean the pitch modulation tool. Melodyne doesn't allow you to create vibrato where there is none. Instead it amplifies or dims the natural vibrato. This allows for a more natural sounding vibrato, though it is true that sometimes it would be nice to use a custom LFO to "draw" vibrato anywhere you want it.
Yes, it controls modulation, but by increasing/decreasing the range of oscillation that the voice creates... No voice sits at a constant pitch... It rolls pleasantly or unpleasantly near for far from the centered pitch and what they term "LFO Tool" (mouseover on the tool) is what tightens and loosens that oscillation... It does not actually use an LFO to create the oscillation... Or at least I've never used it to do that if it can... This appears to be the same tool as what Melodyne calls "Spread", but It is far more limited in the range it can compress/restrict.... I'm hoping that is different in some way in Editor or it badly limits a tool I use often... Keni
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/25 17:30:55
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I've never seen the term spread in there, but I do know that Melodyne Essential does NOT include the pitch modulation tool that you're probably looking for. Look here: http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/functionsThey call it vibrato in this list.
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jmasno5
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Re: Thankful We Still Have V-Vocal
2014/02/25 17:32:08
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Keni
I've had to do a lot of vocal editing lately...
I know Melodyne is supposed to be the holy grail, but I just can't accomplish as much work let alone as quickly with it as I can V-Vocal...
I know VV has problems of it's own, but it gives me so much more power/ability than the included version of Melodyne... Maybe I'd like it better if I could afford the upgrade, but I'm unsure that this would give me what I would want... I know I'd love the polyphonic capability (I am a guitarist first, eh?), but it seems too limited for me... Simple things like the spread control does not have the range that the spread tool does in VV...
Am I missing something? Is it something I'm not understanding of the UI yet?
Anyway...
Thanks for keeping VV with us....
Keni
I haven't spent time with it. I had a harmony that was holding a long single note. It wavered toward the end. I couldn't figure out (in 5 minutes) how edit only part of the note. I went back to VV, highlighted the bad part, done. 30 sec. VV is good. Melodyne Lite is ????
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