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[Fixed in X3e] - Comping bug in X3d?

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neirbod
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December 24, 13 11:06 AM (permalink)

[Fixed in X3e] - Comping bug in X3d?

Just in time for Christmas, I found what looks like a major comping bug and was curious to know if others can replicate it before I contact tech support. See the linked video (apologies for the quality, but it is good enough to see what is happening).  I set up a new project with two tracks in a folder and then loop recorded a few takes.  Preferences were set to group clips in folders. This is pretty typical of any multi-mic punch in session, like a stereo miced guitar solo.
 
http://www.nomadrecordingstudio.com/Sonar/Comp%20error.MOV
 
With take lanes on both tracks expanded, comping behaves as expected. In the video you see me speed comping on track 1 to create a "smiley face" of selected takes to form the comp.  The same actions are mirrored on track 2.
 
Next, I collapse the take lanes in track 2 and speed comp on track 1 again, this time choosing the middle take for each section.  I then expand the take 2 takes, and the most recent comp is not correct.  Track 2 still show the old "smiley face."  
 
This is 100% repeatable on my system.  I rebooted, opened new projects, added new tracks multiple times and get the same results.  
 
Can someone please try this and see if you can replicate it?
post edited by Anderton - March 19, 14 0:09 PM

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22 Replies Related Threads
    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:15 AM (permalink)
    Hi David
     
    Sorry you are having troubles,  I looked at the video but sadly I found it too difficult to follow. Somebody else may do better than me.


    If you are able to show me steps (like the first post here under STEPS) I can try and replicate. Start from Creating a brand new project. You need to guide me through every step of the way like I am blind, assume I don't know the product that well...


    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Specific-Zoom-Drag-Issue-m2955368.aspx
     
    Thanks
     
    Alex

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:24 AM (permalink)
    I am able to replicate this. If either track does not have lanes showing while the other is speed-comped, the collapsed track does not follow the comping changes.

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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:31 AM (permalink)
    Hi Alex,
     
    Thanks for trying to verify.  Here are more detailed steps:
    1. open new project and insert two audio tracks
    2. create new folder, put the two tracks in the folder
    3. make sure in preferences it is set to group clips in folders (under project/record I believe)
    4. arm both tracks, set a loop, and record a few takes.
    5. expand the take lanes on both tracks
    6. divide the takes into several smaller clips each by swiping with the comp tool
    7. go through normal speed coming process, selecting whatever clips you want to create a comp track
     
    Are the take lanes on both tracks showing the same thing (i.e., are the correctly grouped)?  They should be, and they are indeed on my track. Now comes the bug:
     
    1. now collapse the take lanes on track 2, and go through speed comping process again on take 1 to create a different comp track than before
    2. re-open the takes lanes on track 2. 
    What do the take lanes on track 2 show?  Have they been updated to reflect the new comp?  On my system they have not been updated.  It seems like the act of collapsing the take lanes in track 2 has broken the link between tracks 1 and 2 so that edits to track 1's take lanes are not reflected in track 2's take lanes.
     
    Very curious if you or other can reproduce this.
     
    Thanks.

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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:33 AM (permalink)
    brundlefly
    I am able to replicate this. If either track does not have lanes showing while the other is speed-comped, the collapsed track does not follow the comping changes.




    Interesting.  Thanks for confirming.  I can't imagine I (or others) would have missed this bug for very long, so it almost certainly is new to X3d.  

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    gswitz
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:33 AM (permalink)
    I was able to replicate.
     
    Steps...
    - p for preferences
    - Project > Record > Multi-Track Grouping > Group Only Clips in Folders
    - new project
    - new folder
    - 2 audio tracks in the folder
    - Set loop period for 3 measures
    - Enable record on both tracks (or the folder)
    - Record 3 times around the two measures
    - expand lanes on both tracks an notice speed comping is duplicated between the tracks
    - Do this by swiping in the lanes to highlight selected regions. The related lanes on the other track should also be split and selected identically
    - Collapse one of the expanded track lanes
    - Swipe to change the selected lane of the track you did not collapse.
    - Re-expand collapsed lane and see it did not follow the selection of the other

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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 11:42 AM (permalink)
    Well that didn't take long.  Guess folks have having slow work days!
     
    Thanks for confirming.  With such an emphasis on take lanes and comping it is hard to believe this one slipped through the cracks.  This ranks among the very top tier of "must fix - fast" bugs IMHO.  I will submit it to CW.
     
    Cheers,
     
    David

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 12:06 AM (permalink)
    neirbod
    With such an emphasis on take lanes and comping it is hard to believe this one slipped through the cracks.  This ranks among the very top tier of "must fix - fast" bugs IMHO.  I will submit it to CW.
     



    Considering how long it took someone to report it "in the wild", it doesn't surprise me it was missed, especially if it's new to X1d which didn't allow much time for regression testing. Also I would speculate that in the process of testing group comping, testers would tend to have lanes showing on all tracks so they could immediately verify that group changes were being mirrored correctly.
     
    In any case, I agree this one's pretty significant - much more so than some of GUI niggles that are generating so much fury. 
     
    The good news is that re-selecting the active clips in the comped track with lanes showing in the other(s) will re-sync them.

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    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 2:43 PM (permalink)
    I can reproduce, it's important to stress "group only clips in folder" is the setting to use, no other setting (i.e. "group all clips" won't reproduce this).
     
    David are you able to send Cakewalk the best steps to reproduce, give them a link to this thread and post the issue number here? That way I can update my known bug post with your issue number....
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/problemreport.aspx
     
    Thanks

    Alex
     
     

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    Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 3:04 PM (permalink)
    I doubt this is new to X3D or that it is a bug introduced in the D patch.  I don't know too many DAWs that let you comp with take lanes closed.  However, I can see wanting to keep things together.  We'll look into tweaking the rules.

    Keith
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    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 24, 13 3:12 PM (permalink)
    If somebody could let me know the issue number anyway that would be good.... thanks..

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    rontarrant
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 25, 13 7:36 AM (permalink)
    neirbod
    Interesting.  Thanks for confirming.  I can't imagine I (or others) would have missed this bug for very long, so it almost certainly is new to X3d.  

    Something similar was happening in X3c, but (for me, at least) it didn't show up until I had four comped tracks. The workaround I used was to flatten, then bounce each track as it was finished before moving on to the next.

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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 26, 13 11:05 AM (permalink)
    neirbod
    brundlefly
    I am able to replicate this. If either track does not have lanes showing while the other is speed-comped, the collapsed track does not follow the comping changes.




    Interesting.  Thanks for confirming.  I can't imagine I (or others) would have missed this bug for very long, so it almost certainly is new to X3d.  



    This must be new to X3d.
     
    I'm still on X3c and just recently did extended comping sessions on a multi-mic'd drum kit, tracked with "group only clips in folder" and then comped by ear working only off the kick and snare tracks; all other tracks followed comping as expected ... and I'm sure I had them all collaped (i.e not showing the take lanes) ...
     

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    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 26, 13 7:09 PM (permalink)
    So I ended up reporting this... CWBRN-22783

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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 26, 13 7:39 PM (permalink)
    Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
    I don't know too many DAWs that let you comp with take lanes closed.  However, I can see wanting to keep things together.  We'll look into tweaking the rules.




    Hi Keith,
     
    For the record Sonar itself allows comping across grouped clips with take lanes closed. You just need to do it with your mouse and the comp tool.  It looks like the only error is specifically when auditioning and trying to use the enter key to promote clips.  I can't see any logical reason why the behavior I observed is desirable or logical, so I can only assume it is unintended and a bug. 
     
    I see Alex reported this (thanks).  I will do the same for good measure.
     
     
    post edited by neirbod - December 26, 13 8:00 PM

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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 27, 13 4:59 AM (permalink)
    neirbod
    Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
    I don't know too many DAWs that let you comp with take lanes closed.  However, I can see wanting to keep things together.  We'll look into tweaking the rules.




    Hi Keith,
     
    For the record Sonar itself allows comping across grouped clips with take lanes closed. You just need to do it with your mouse and the comp tool.  It looks like the only error is specifically when auditioning and trying to use the enter key to promote clips.  I can't see any logical reason why the behavior I observed is desirable or logical, so I can only assume it is unintended and a bug. 
     
    I see Alex reported this (thanks).  I will do the same for good measure.
     
     




    Interesting. That explains why it worked perfectly in my recent sessions (all done with comp tool & mouse) - so this may also be in X3c (thanks for alerting me).
     
    I would also like to stress the importance of this being fully functional with take lanes closed. Pls remember there are people out there using it for multi-mic sessions where all takes in the related tracks need to stay in sync, even if not all are shown ... just think of the screen estate it takes to display e.g. 15 takes on an 12 mic session ...

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    rontarrant
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 27, 13 8:49 AM (permalink)
    neirbod
    For the record Sonar itself allows comping across grouped clips with take lanes closed.

    Grouped clips?
    I'll have to look into that.

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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? December 27, 13 9:47 AM (permalink)
    rontarrant
    neirbod
    For the record Sonar itself allows comping across grouped clips with take lanes closed.

    Grouped clips?
    I'll have to look into that.




    Grouped clips is what this thread is about.  E.g., grouping kick, snare, and overhead for a drum session.  If you then expand the takes for the overhead only and comp it, the kick and snare should comp the same way even if takes are collapsed.  

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    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? January 03, 14 1:55 PM (permalink)
    CWBRN-22783 is now confirmed by Cakewalk.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    pbandit
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? January 11, 14 3:29 PM (permalink)
    +1
     

     
    I would also like to stress the importance of this being fully functional with take lanes closed. Pls remember there are people out there using it for multi-mic sessions where all takes in the related tracks need to stay in sync, even if not all are shown ... just think of the screen estate it takes to display e.g. 15 takes on an 12 mic session ...




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    neirbod
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? March 18, 14 9:27 PM (permalink)
    Fixed!

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    Splat
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? March 18, 14 9:43 PM (permalink)
    Yey :)

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    LJB
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    Re: Comping bug in X3d? March 19, 14 2:07 AM (permalink)
    I thought I was just an idiot with my editing skills in X3D. I fell much better now! :O)

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