DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
[Solved] Audio Engine button keeps disabling
I have a X3 template file from which all of my new projects begin. A few CSC tracks, a few TTS tracks, an SI Drums track and an SessionDrummer track. For some reason, the two Drum tracks are malfunctioning. a) (In the case of both tracks) I select a kit, but the instrument does not sound. Nor does the level meter light up. b) I delete the synth track (and the synth itself from the Rack) and insert a new one. I select a kit -- and it sounds. c) I save the template as a new Template file. I close down Sonar and reopen it to the template. d) Upon loading the template, the drum track is once again silent. The synth loads, but we're back to step A. Can anyone tell me why the drum kits are resetting when I load the file? Any info is appreciated. Thanks! EDIT, 8:40PM Running the actual Sonar shortcut that opens to the Template, the drum kit sounds. I saved the file as the Template. Running the Template file itself, sampled the drum kit bu it is quiet (per step A). When I inserted another Drum kit track, I heard a loud drum hit (the audio of what I just tried to sample). Drum kit(s) sounded, but went quiet again next time template was loaded (per step A). In both tests, the Drum Kits only sound while the project is open. Close, reopen, they don't sound. Any ideas?
post edited by Anderton - 2014/05/18 17:12:57
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/05 23:15:20
(permalink)
Not sure if this will help but I save my templates as a CWP file. Seems to make no real difference. Open your template Set everything up the way you like it. Save As to Normal ( CWP ) and give it a name like " Original template 1.CWP" Then open it, And immediately SAVE AS and re name as the song title your about to work on. I browse to a new folder for the song. Al the pre sets for Session drummer, tts1 and the lexicon load up fine.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/05/06 10:06:07
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/06 08:49:47
(permalink)
Well, I did some experimenting and did not seem to be able to duplicate your issues.
Can you please take another crack at explaining exactly what you are doing? If there IS a way to get this to happen, I am willing to keep trying, as it might help the Cakewalk folks out in the event that there is some sort of bug.
I am a bit curious, though.
1. You indicate that you saved things as a Template - I am assuming you mean a Project Template, and not a Track Template?
2. I am wondering why you are opening the saved template again, rather than using it as the base for a new project. Project templates are really intended to be loaded as the starting point for a new project, where you would provide some name for the new project and select one of the project templates to get your new project started. By opening the template as the saved template, you are making it so you have extra steps when actually creating a new project, in my opinion.
I create Project and Track templates all the time. To create a Project Template, I would start a new project (usually named some gibberish, since I am not actually going to save the project as a project and do not then need the project folder), and I may choose either Normal or some other template, depending on how close one of those is to what I am trying to build. I then make all of the adjustments I want, such as loading and configuring a drum synth and its audio tracks and cell output assignments, or even inserting from track templates. So, when I have whatever template adjustments finished, I do a Save As, change the Type to Template, give it some meaningful template name, and navigate to the X3 Project Templates folder and hit Save.
To USE the new project template, I would start a new project, giving it a real project name, and select the project template I created. Sonar then loads up that template, with whatever is inside it, and now when I do a Save, it saves it all as a regular Sonar Project file with the name of the project and a '*.cwp' extension, in a project folder, where the project file name and the project folder name are the name I gave the new project.
I did a bunch of testing, loading and saving project templates, using Session Drummer, and I had NO success at producing any problems with the drums sounding. That is not to say that there isn't a problem - I just could not reproduce it, and THIS is why I would like you to provide a set of steps that you do that produce this problem. THEN, I can also produce the problem and will have something I can work with to help you, and to help report it to Cakewalk for fixing.
I do believe that something is occurring in how you are doing things, that causes these issues for you, but what that might be is either not listed or I am simply missing something in what you had explained.
I DO think that there may be some significance in one thing you said, about hearing a single drum 'hit', but am not sure what is happening to get that to occur (it does not do that for me).
Please also explain what you mean by 'Sampling a drum kit'. What I am doing is double-clicking on the Session Drummer instance that is in the synth rack, and clicking on the various kit pieces, which triggers them to produce the corresponding sound (snare, toms, etc).
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/06 17:42:26
(permalink)
CACTUS MUSIC -- I will give your suggestion a try. My means of saving to a Template file is so that I can have Sonar load right into it than doing it manually. But I would guess it's the same as loading the template .CWP just as well. BOB -- Thanks for your insight into this bug. I have answered your passages below...  robert_e_bone
Can you please take another crack at explaining exactly what you are doing? If there IS a way to get this to happen, I am willing to keep trying, as it might help the Cakewalk folks out in the event that there is some sort of bug.
I've created a Sonar Template file (5 CSC, 5 TTS, 1 SesDrum, 1 SI-Drums) to build my projects from. It's saved in Windows' My Music folder as a Template (.CWT) file, named "Normal". When I build the song, I save as Project thereafter, leaving the Normal template unmodified when I close Sonar. robert_e_bone
1. You indicate that you saved things as a Template - I am assuming you mean a Project Template, and not a Track Template?
Yes -- this is a Project template called "Normal". I prefer to have Sonar set to launch directly into the template when I run the Sonar shortcut. I load my existing projects simply by clicking their filename, but when I start a new project, I either click the Sonar shortcut (which, again, loads right into "Normal") or just load the "Normal" file itself. robert_e_bone
2. I am wondering why you are opening the saved template again, rather than using it as the base for a new project. Project templates are really intended to be loaded as the starting point for a new project, where you would provide some name for the new project and select one of the project templates to get your new project started. By opening the template as the saved template, you are making it so you have extra steps when actually creating a new project, in my opinion.
I intend to use "Normal" as my base for all projects. The silence in the Drums bug was something I stumbled upon when accessing my Normal template. This also happened with the project file of the same build. robert_e_bone
I create Project and Track templates all the time. To create a Project Template, I would start a new project (usually named some gibberish, since I am not actually going to save the project as a project and do not then need the project folder), and I may choose either Normal or some other template, depending on how close one of those is to what I am trying to build. I then make all of the adjustments I want, such as loading and configuring a drum synth and its audio tracks and cell output assignments, or even inserting from track templates. So, when I have whatever template adjustments finished, I do a Save As, change the Type to Template, give it some meaningful template name, and navigate to the X3 Project Templates folder and hit Save.
To USE the new project template, I would start a new project, giving it a real project name, and select the project template I created. Sonar then loads up that template, with whatever is inside it, and now when I do a Save, it saves it all as a regular Sonar Project file with the name of the project and a '*.cwp' extension, in a project folder, where the project file name and the project folder name are the name I gave the new project.
First paragraph: exactly what I do. Second paragraph: I deviate a bit from that. I start new projects through the template (set to automatically load), draw in my content, then save to a Project. As you said, starting a new project and choosing the Template from the prompt, I could do it that way, but it's just a few extra steps I'd rather avoid. The method in which a template is to be loaded unnerves and concerns me. The way Sonar loads a template shouldn't affect the operations of one of the synths therein. robert_e_bone
I did a bunch of testing, loading and saving project templates, using Session Drummer, and I had NO success at producing any problems with the drums sounding. That is not to say that there isn't a problem - I just could not reproduce it, and THIS is why I would like you to provide a set of steps that you do that produce this problem. THEN, I can also produce the problem and will have something I can work with to help you, and to help report it to Cakewalk for fixing.
This template was definitely created after upgrading to Sonar, so hopefully it doesn't have any glitches embedded from my previous Music Creator 6. Just somehow I discovered yesterday that both Drum synths go silent until I add another one. robert_e_bone
I DO think that there may be some significance in one thing you said, about hearing a single drum 'hit', but am not sure what is happening to get that to occur (it does not do that for me).
Please also explain what you mean by 'Sampling a drum kit'. What I am doing is double-clicking on the Session Drummer instance that is in the synth rack, and clicking on the various kit pieces, which triggers them to produce the corresponding sound (snare, toms, etc).
Referencing the drum hit sound & "sampling a drum kit": I open up the properties of a drum synth. I select a kit and click on a few drums, and there's no sound. I exit Properties and when I insert a new drum synth, that particular drum I just hit from that kit suddenly sounds. Something is awry with my template, even as a project file of that same build. Upon opening that template, the drum track is silent. No meter light-up either. (I actually haven't tested CSC and TTS tracks to see if they do this also.) I insert a new drum synth and I get the sound back. (At this point, doesn't seem to matter whether I save or not.) I close Sonar, reopen, and the drums are again silent. As I await your follow-up, I may actually rebuild my template from scratch. I'm so frustrated that I've been using the Cakewalk software for almost a year and barely got any work done in favor of experimenting and troubleshooting. I hope to get this worked out... Thanks again for your input in this boggling matter. 
post edited by Grundberg - 2014/05/07 16:12:22
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/07 16:16:13
(permalink)
EDIT, 5:06PM:
When I load this Template, NONE of the inserted synths sound (not just the drums track).
Furthermore, when I insert ANY new synth track, I hear the drum hit of that last piece I struck in the kit preview window.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/08 10:15:44
(permalink)
I responded to your PM, by sending you my email address for you to send me your project template.
I will post any findings back here in the post.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 10:27:58
(permalink)
OK - check your PM's. I am about to test out what you sent me.
I would have done it yesterday, but our entire sub-division lost power for several hours, twice.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 11:36:31
(permalink)
OK - I was sent a copy of the Cakewalk Project Template that this issue is about, and this morning I was finally able to carve out some time to test some things out with it.
I first downloaded it into the default location for templates on my computer, which is at: D:\\Cakewalk Content\SONAR X3 Producer\Project Templates, and gave it a new name, so as not to disturb my Normal template.
I then launched X3, and told it to create a new project, using the newly-saved project template.
The project consisted of 5 simple instrument tracks, each pointing to an instance of the Cakewalk Sound Center in the synth rack, all of which had the default sound loaded. Then, there were 5 midi tracks, each pointing to the same single instance of TTS-1 in the synth rack. Each midi track was assigned to a midi output channel (1-5), and there was a single audio track labelled to pick up output from TTS-1. Then there was another simple instrument track, for SI Drums, and one more simple instrument track for Session Drummer 1.
PLEASE NOTE that there was NO loaded preset for the instance of Session Drummer 1 in the synth rack. Sounds were loaded for all other synths in the rack.
PLEASE ALSO NOTE that the audio track, labelled TTS1 Output, had NO assigned Input, so there was no chance of hearing any of the TTS-1 synth sounds, using the project template I had received.
OK, so I then opened up each synth instance in the rack, and triggered notes, using the virtual keyboard for the CSC synth instances, the 'preview' button for the tracks of the TTS-1 instance, and the virtual drum kits for both SI Drums and Session Drummer 1.
All synth instances in the rack produced sound, EXCEPT for TTS-1 and Session Drummer 1.
1. TTS-1 pressing the Preview buttons OR triggering notes from one of my midi controllers both failed to produce sound. Upon closer examination, triggering notes from my controller DID generate midi activity, but no sound, and as indicated clicking the preview produced no sound (and no midi activity, but I think that is expected, since it is the internal preview button). Anyways, the problem, as noted earlier, was the Audio track Input for TTS1 Output was NOT assigned. Once I set that to pick up output from TTS-1 Output 1 Stereo, then hitting Preview worked, as did triggering note events from my midi controller. So, that was the problem with TTS-1.
2. Session Drummer 1. As noted earlier, the instance of Session Drummer 1 had NO loaded preset, and as expected, produced no sound. As soon as I loaded a preset into its synth rack instance, the kit sounded just fine, when triggered from either the virtual kit in the UI, or from midi controller notes.
3. There were no problems with any triggered notes for any of the instances of the Cakewalk Sound Center synths - they all played just fine.
4. Saving the project, closing and reopening it, I had NO problems playing sounds for all tracks.
PLEASE NOTE that for reasons I TRULY do not understand, every single track sent its output directly to output channels of my audio interface, rather than to a Master or Sub Bus.
I REALLY don't get that. There were NO buses present in the project.
OK - so I do not know what else to test. Once I fixed the routing assignments and loaded a preset into Session Drummer 1, everything triggered just fine, and I also had NO trouble saving off a project created from the template, then reopening it and triggering sounds. It all just worked.
Please review the above and let me know what else you would like me to do.
ALSO, please explain to me why in the world you would want to skip the use of buses entirely and go directly to audio interface output ports.
Lastly, I myself NEVER EVER use simple instrument tracks for anything, whatsoever. I use separate midi and audio tracks, period. I am not saying using simple instrument tracks is problematic/wrong, I just find I can do anything at all I wish to with using separate audio and midi tracks.
So, I will look for a response from you on the above, and am happy to do any additional testing you wish done.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 16:53:29
(permalink)
robert_e_bone
PLEASE ALSO NOTE that the audio track, labelled TTS1 Output, had NO assigned Input, so there was no chance of hearing any of the TTS-1 synth sounds, using the project template I had received.
1. TTS-1 pressing the Preview buttons OR triggering notes from one of my midi controllers both failed to produce sound. Upon closer examination, triggering notes from my controller DID generate midi activity, but no sound, and as indicated clicking the preview produced no sound (and no midi activity, but I think that is expected, since it is the internal preview button). Anyways, the problem, as noted earlier, was the Audio track Input for TTS1 Output was NOT assigned. Once I set that to pick up output from TTS-1 Output 1 Stereo, then hitting Preview worked, as did triggering note events from my midi controller. So, that was the problem with TTS-1.
I assigned the TTS-1 Output track to the correct input. The meter lit up, but I heard no sound, even after selecting another instrument through the Mixer and the Patch button. robert_e_bone
2. Session Drummer 1. As noted earlier, the instance of Session Drummer 1 had NO loaded preset, and as expected, produced no sound. As soon as I loaded a preset into its synth rack instance, the kit sounded just fine, when triggered from either the virtual kit in the UI, or from midi controller notes.
For some reason, even after choosing a Session Drummer program, I heard no sound. robert_e_bone
3. There were no problems with any triggered notes for any of the instances of the Cakewalk Sound Center synths - they all played just fine.
I am not able to hear sound (or get the meter to light for any of the five Sound Center tracks. robert_e_bone
PLEASE NOTE that for reasons I TRULY do not understand, every single track sent its output directly to output channels of my audio interface, rather than to a Master or Sub Bus. I REALLY don't get that. There were NO buses present in the project.
ALSO, please explain to me why in the world you would want to skip the use of buses entirely and go directly to audio interface output ports.
Honestly -- I haven't learned how to use buses or become aware that they would be the smarter alternative. robert_e_bone
Lastly, I myself NEVER EVER use simple instrument tracks for anything, whatsoever. I use separate midi and audio tracks, period. I am not saying using simple instrument tracks is problematic/wrong, I just find I can do anything at all I wish to with using separate audio and midi tracks.
Please pardon, but...would you elaborate? I am grateful for your assistance on this! :) When I received your response, I was excited to learn that I had simply ignored a minor oversight that some instruments merely weren't selected. But after examining these solutions and trying them myself, I cannot get any of my tracks to sound. However, my sound comes back for ALL tracks when I insert a new synth track of any kind. I am stumped. Please advise. Thanks again for your assistance! :)
post edited by Grundberg - 2014/05/14 17:47:11
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 19:35:07
(permalink)
I would suggest you go through the tutorials, to help you get up to speed on X3.
I do not know why you cannot get sound - I literally used the same template you sent me, with only making the changes of loading a preset into Session Drummer 1 and setting the Input routing for TTS Output to pick up the stereo output.
I use separate midi tracks and audio tracks as a matter of personal choice, I work with multi-timbral instruments, like Kontakt 5, and want to have multiple midi tracks associated with a given instance of it, so I do that with separate midi tracks. I also will have separate audio tracks - either a left and right for each loaded instrument, or sometimes i single stereo track for each loaded instrument.
I frequently have different effects on one side or the other of a stereo output, so I tend to use a separate left and right audio track.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 22:39:43
(permalink)
I reinstalled Sonar X3 and noticed the synths go silent when reloading a project that contains even ONE synth track. I did a loosely-targeted Google search and stumbled upon a Troubleshooting page for no sound. One of the solutions was to check the Audio Engine button. It seems as though the Audio Engine button is turning off every time I exit the project!  I Googled this as well, and found the following link. Please let me know what you make of this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Audio-Engine-turns-off-m2441661.aspx When I installed for the first time, I had to minimize the latency because notes were being delayed and I'm not using an external interface. Right now, my buffer size is minimized (Audio -> Driver Settings -> Mixing Latency). In MIDI -> Playback/Recording, playback is set to 200-millisecond buffers. I believe this is the solution. Now to figure out where these levels should be...
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 22:44:17
(permalink)
Here is some text you posted above: "I assigned the TTS-1 Output track to the correct input. The meter lit up, but I heard no sound, even after selecting another instrument through the Mixer and the Patch button."
Please explain EXACTLY what you set the TTS-1 Output Track (the audio track labelled TTS-1 Output) to, AND also please DETAIL exactly what steps you took to attempt to get it to play sounds. (how did you try to trigger sounds on TTS-1, was the midi input echo on button for the correct midi channel lit? etc). Be specific, because something you are/aren't doing is making it work for me and not for you, or your system has a problem.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 23:01:19
(permalink)
robert_e_bone
Here is some text you posted above: "I assigned the TTS-1 Output track to the correct input. The meter lit up, but I heard no sound, even after selecting another instrument through the Mixer and the Patch button."
Please explain EXACTLY what you set the TTS-1 Output Track (the audio track labelled TTS-1 Output) to, AND also please DETAIL exactly what steps you took to attempt to get it to play sounds. (how did you try to trigger sounds on TTS-1, was the midi input echo on button for the correct midi channel lit? etc). Be specific, because something you are/aren't doing is making it work for me and not for you, or your system has a problem.
Bob Bone
TTS Output track is set to "TTS Output 1 Stereo" as you suggested. The meter would light up, but so sound is heard. The Input Thru button is always lit. I would try to trigger sounds through PRV or through the Mixer. HOWEVER -- as Post #11 suggests, I believe I've narrowed the problem down to the Audio Engine button. It's totally consistent with the issue. The Audio Engine button turns off when I close/open the application. The Audio Engine button remains on while remaining IN the app, closing and reloading the project.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/14 23:54:14
(permalink)
You see how much time people waste when there is no audio interface involved! I'm afraid Sonar just plain don't cooperate if you do not use a proper audio interface with good drivers.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 05:53:49
(permalink)
All the work above is unnecessary with no audio interface that Sonar needs to provide decent performance its a waste of time trying to troubleshoot this.
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 06:33:56
(permalink)
Are you saying that there's no way to keep the Audio Engine button from turning off on exit because I've minimized the latency (to prevent notes delaying/dropping) and I have no external audio device (suggested, but not required)?
I refuse to believe that Sonar is that restrictive to allow me to adjust latency/buffers and turn off my Audio Engine button every time I close the application. I was able to adjust the latency the same way in MC6 and still do my work without note-dropping and the audio engine shutting off on me.
Unless there's an entirely different reason why the Audio Engine button disables when the application is closed and reopened.
Granted, I'm still learning, I'm just merely stating my observations. :)
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 06:47:21
(permalink)
Sonar is a pro quality DAW and to do its best it needs a pro quality audio interface. In a pinch with a laptop and on the go it has been done when people use the audio chip on the motherboard to do some simple editing. For working with low latency audio you need to add a good audio interface that has solid drivers.
You may not think this is so but it is. No DAW will perform at its best hampered by inadequate audio. Keep in mind that the audio chip that comes on the motherboard is meant for media playback where latency is unimportant.
A DAW lives or dies on latency.
If you ask around you will get the same answer from anyone that understands digital audio.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 09:46:22
(permalink)
The audio engine shuts off if excessive demands are being made on it. This can be latency, conflicting processes within the computer, project complexity, all of the above, etc. Standard Windows drivers and an on-board sound chip were NEVER designed for pro-level audio tasks.
Here's a simple test. Change Sonar's audio latency to something really big, like 200 milliseconds. If the audio engine doesn't drop out, it's almost certainly a sound chip/drivers issue although it could be other conflicts as well.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 13:23:03
(permalink)
My favorite explanation is -$400 Audio software doesn't run on a $10 Audio chip.
Your audio interface is the heart of all computer recording systems.
You buy the interface before you buy the software.
|
Grem
Max Output Level: -19.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5562
- Joined: 2005/06/28 09:26:32
- Location: Baton Rouge Area
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 13:52:52
(permalink)
Cactus Music
You buy the interface before you buy the software.
I didn't know this in '96! I found out real quick. 😊😊
Grem
Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 17:56:34
(permalink)
To the OP - you really do have GREAT recording software, but you will need to pick up some sort of an audio interface, even a reasonable one, in order to principally take the load off of your CPU for doing the massive analog/digital conversions needed for running a program such as Sonar.
I happen to like using USB interfaces, and some folks choose to use FireWire types instead.
The low end of what I would look at starts at around $150, and will cost more if you desire more features. The more inputs and outputs and the more mic-preamps and all of that, the more the interface will cost.
There are $150 interfaces that do a FINE job of meeting the needs of someone that only needs a couple of inputs - look for phantom power, and ABSOLUTELY make sure the interface supports both Windows 7 and Windows 8 with its drivers.
Once you DO get an audio interface, I would suggest the following configuration settings, as a reasonable starting point:
For the interface: Sample Rate of 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128
For Sonar: Driver Mode of ASIO, Sample Rate of 48 k, Record Bit-Depth of 24 bits.
You want to run with a Sonar-reported Total Roundtrip Latency of around 10 milliseconds, or just a little less, when recording. (for mixing, you will likely have to jack up the ASIO Buffer Size to maybe as much as 1024).
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 18:41:19
(permalink)
Thank you, Robert and everyone for your contribution to this topic. Ultimately, the issue of some/all of my synth tracks not playing was iindeed faulted to the Audio Engine button disabling when I exited the Sonar application. Throughout the day, I compiled a list of the conditions in which the Audio Engine button would disable and how I would get it working again. One of the options was to downgrade to Music Creator (which I remember was less problematic). But when I resumed the "Sonar experience", the audio engine dilemma became more erratic and inconsistent than I am capable of understanding or troubleshooting. I'm baffled and unable to convince myself that it is completely random. I wrote several MIDI tracks in 1996 which I'm proud of. Obviously, things have changed since then. In July 2013, I bought with Music Creator, and a few months ago, Sonar X3 in the hopes that this little amateur music hobby would bloom into something memorable. These ten months later, I haven't finished any of my new songs because of one hiccup after another. This most recent hiccup -- erratic disabling of the Audio Engine -- has got me frustrated, lost, discouraged, confused and disappointed. I have reviewed all the follow-ups herein and finally accepted the need to purchase an external audio interface. (I had seriously thought that somehow, in some way, I could accomplish this without one.) It is quite troubling how I underestimated the patience and knowledge necessary to make this work smoothly. Now I have to truly consider whether this is a hobby I'm willing to put a little more money into, let alone commit to (and believe in). However, Robert, your most recent suggestion on the audio interface is a very informative launch point, should I continue to pursue this. All the variables have just caused me to become frazzled and overwhelmed. What I feel I'm trying to pursue is similar to taking on a construction project without a college degree or proper tools. I feel lost, defeated, and I don't know what to do. What if this hobby isn't meant for me? It's just fun and it feels right, and I have the creativity. I've spent so much time (although only $60) learning the Cakewalk software, experimentation and troubleshooting issues I feel incapable of handling. At the risk of eventually burning out, I may have to sideline this pursuit to recover and muster the patience and energy to resume this and take it more seriously. It may be tomorrow, it may be next week. I don't consider myself a quitter, but this is something I'll need to think over. Thanks to everyone for your knowledge, input and support.
post edited by Grundberg - 2014/05/15 19:00:16
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 20:11:08
(permalink)
Yes it is somewhat costly but not as much as you may think. I will go out on a limb and guarantee that if you were to get a good audio interface your satisfaction quotient will increase exponentially.
I wouldn't let this small bump in the road stand in the way of your pursuing a music creation hobby. A few bucks spent wisely will reap great rewards And you never know where it will lead you. Also you may not know it now but as a member we will help you in any way we can. Its good to have this forum as a goto group.
Don't chuck it all over something that is so easy to fix.
|
Kev999
Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3922
- Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/15 20:11:58
(permalink)
Grundberg
...finally accepted the need to purchase an external audio interface...I have to truly consider whether this is a hobby I'm willing to put a little more money into, let alone commit to...What if this hobby isn't meant for me?...
Remember that your audio interface won't just be used with Sonar. It will replace your computer's existing soundcard with something that's higher quality. It's not just about latency. Music that you listen to on YouTube, iTunes or whatever will sound better too.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/16 00:17:12
(permalink)
@Grundberg - There are LOTS of things to learn with Sonar, or any other DAW, BUT DO NOT LET THE FRUSTRATIONS OF THE LACK OF AN AUDIO INTERFACE DETER YOU!!!!!!!
Please please please please please KNOW that your experience will INSTANTLY improve, when you get the settings and such together with a nice shiny new audio interface. I have already given you some starting settings for the interface, which should simply WORK.
I PROMISE you that you will get WAY more enjoyment out of it all, once you get to the magical place of it all simply working.
I am a NEWBIE, when it comes to mixing and mastering, and despite having Cakewalk products for 20+ years, there are STILL lots of things for me to know. BUT, all I have to do is fire up Sonar, and I can record to my heart's content, and Sonar doesn't crash, and things record and playback, and I CAN get complete bliss from being able to express myself through my music.
I TRULY believe you will have a fabulous, life changing experience once things get stabilized with having the right gear - you already have a capable computer, and Sonar is certainly up to the job, all you are missing is the audio interface. REALLY.
ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, you have this wonderful and helpful forum, FULL of folks who will bend over backward to assist you.
I PROMISE my support to you, as long as you remain engaged in the process and are willing to work with those who are seeking to assist you.
You are like 90% there - maybe more. You do not need to start with a $500 interface. Look at one of the $150-$200 ones. IF you outgrow that at some point, you can always sell it and move up to something more elaborate, but in the meantime, you will STILL have tons of fun, because once it is set up, things just work. Yes, there will be updates, and OS maintenance, and learning curve, but that is a small part of the whole experience.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/16 10:44:19
(permalink)
what is it that mc6 can't do that sonar can? did you try the asio4all driver for the onboard soundcard?
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/17 13:02:32
(permalink)
I'm sorry lawp but that is bad advice and not a good road for this person to go down. asio4all is just a band-aid solution for desperate people who just want to do some editing while using a laptop. It is a very weak "heart" for an well oiled audio system.
This long winded thread could have had 3 posts and one paragraph,
You start all troubleshooting by asking if the OP has a up to date Audio Driver and a proper interface. If it is not in the signature, ask.
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/17 13:13:32
(permalink)
Personally I've had great results with asio4all, better to regret something you have done than something you haven't ;-)
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
DaveG74
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 220
- Joined: 2013/07/07 12:54:25
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/18 16:38:54
(permalink)
John
Yes it is somewhat costly but not as much as you may think. I will go out on a limb and guarantee that if you were to get a good audio interface your satisfaction quotient will increase exponentially.
I wouldn't let this small bump in the road stand in the way of your pursuing a music creation hobby. A few bucks spent wisely will reap great rewards And you never know where it will lead you. Also you may not know it now but as a member we will help you in any way we can. Its good to have this forum as a goto group.
Thank you for those thoughts. I completely agree but I simply was either stubborn or set on doing this work without the interface. robert_e_bone
Please please please please please KNOW that your experience will INSTANTLY improve, when you get the settings and such together with a nice shiny new audio interface. I have already given you some starting settings for the interface, which should simply WORK.
I TRULY believe you will have a fabulous, life changing experience once things get stabilized with having the right gear - you already have a capable computer, and Sonar is certainly up to the job, all you are missing is the audio interface. REALLY.
ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, you have this wonderful and helpful forum, FULL of folks who will bend over backward to assist you. I PROMISE my support to you, as long as you remain engaged in the process and are willing to work with those who are seeking to assist you.
You have been a tremendous help in offering your time to test my template for me. That being said -- leaving the audio interface out of the equation for a moment -- I've made another discovery pertaining to the audio engine button...! (See very bottom.) Kev999
Remember that your audio interface won't just be used with Sonar. It will replace your computer's existing soundcard with something that's higher quality. It's not just about latency. Music that you listen to on YouTube, iTunes or whatever will sound better too.
I can understand that. GuitarHacker (over at the Music Creator Forum) was the first person to suggest an audio interface back in July when I first started with Cakewalk software. I'm convinced that this investment would help if I went forward with that. Cactus Music
This long winded thread could have had 3 posts and one paragraph,
You start all troubleshooting by asking if the OP has a up to date Audio Driver and a proper interface. If it is not in the signature, ask.
I'm going to close this thread here. As of today, the problem has resolved itself twice throughout the conversation. If I may, please allow me to inject one more discovery (putting the audio interface out of the equation for a moment) pertaining to the Audio Engine button. I've started a new thread, briefly summarizing the issue and outlining my discovery (and intentions forthcoming). Please see here: "[RESOLVED] Audio Engine button disabling / Audio interface questions"
|
Splat 
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8672
- Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
- Location: Mars.
- Status: offline
Re: Drum synth tracks go silent upon project open
2014/05/18 23:32:13
(permalink)
ASIO4all... Just don't :)
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
|