rcrees
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Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
For years, I've been in the "What are the best headphones to mix with…?" camp. Two reasons. First, my studio is in an apartment in New York City and I did not want to disturb neighbors with my late night sessions. Secondly, and most importantly, my existing monitors were REALLY bad. Bought them over 15 years ago. They were cheap (first clue, right?) and all I could afford at the time. The only way to hear everything in my mix was to turn them up…no bass, thin highs, basically mush. So I just gave up on them and started mixing with headphones. I spent a lot of money on good headphones and the results were something I could live with. I could hear the whole mix, the whole range, and I wasn't disturbing anyone's sleep. BUT, as many on this forum have pointed out, it's very difficult to get a "true" mix that will sound good on speakers that are surrounded by air when you're mixing on speakers that are sending the sound directly into your ear. Also, no matter how comfortable the headphones may be, I always had an issue with headphone fatigue... Recently, I decided to spend some money to buy better monitors…NOT to replace my headphone mixing, but just so when I played my music for people, it didn't sound like mush. I went to B&H where I was able to load up some of my own music as well as some commercial music I knew very well (Beatles White Album) and do side by side comparisons. My price range was still not in the "best" league, but I settled on the salesman recommended Yamaha HS5s. They sounded the best to my ears and were in my price range ($400 for two). Brought them home, hooked them up and they sounded GREAT. (this is not a commercial for the HS5s, but my own personal experience). I was already happy but then came the BEST part... I found that I could play the monitors at a low, late night level and STILL hear the entire mix… what a revelation! I was hearing a true mix at a level that wouldn't get me kicked out of my apartment building, without using headphones. I am in home studio recording heaven. My studio is far from perfect, it's still in a corner of my apartment with no acoustic treatments but with my new monitors, I think I'm getting the best representation of my music I can. Sorry this is so long winded, but I can't tell you how happy I am right now. Thought my story might help others considering the leap from headphone mixing. Best, Rob
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sharke
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 07, 14 11:53 AM
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☄ Helpfulby MetalTeK July 10, 14 11:33 AM
I'm in the same boat as you, did most of my work on good cans because I live in a small NYC apartment and I didn't want to get into treating the room etc. I have a VRM box for simulating rooms on headphones, and believe me that helps a LOT - but like you say, there is no substitute for hearing your music on real speakers. It seems that music mixed on good monitors translates well to headphones but not the other way around...
Anyway I recently got a pair of Equator Audio D5's for a similar price to your Yamahas. And they freaking rock like yours. But what's made an even bigger difference is that ages ago, I bought ARC2 in a sale. It was sitting on the shelf doing nothing and since I got my D5's I bit the bullet, did all the mic measurements and got it set up. It's corrected most of the "bad stuff" in my room and when sitting in my mixing position (aka "sweet spot"), the D5's sound about as perfect as I can imagine.
If and when you're willing to spring for ARC2, do it! It will more than double the usefulness of your monitors. It may well even be going cheap on Amazon now (although I'm not sure). The biggest problem in my untreated studio is boomy bass and ARC2 has virtually eliminated it.
PS I just decided to screw my neighbors because they've never shown me any consideration during the years I've been hiding under headphones so as not to disturb them.
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gswitz
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 07, 14 12:03 AM
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I sometimes use both headphones and monitors. The headphones sit off my ears. I know there are lots of side effects, but it enables very low volume.
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Lynn
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 07, 14 12:22 AM
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sharke I'm in the same boat as you, did most of my work on good cans because I live in a small NYC apartment and I didn't want to get into treating the room etc. I have a VRM box for simulating rooms on headphones, and believe me that helps a LOT - but like you say, there is no substitute for hearing your music on real speakers. It seems that music mixed on good monitors translates well to headphones but not the other way around...
Anyway I recently got a pair of Equator Audio D5's for a similar price to your Yamahas. And they freaking rock like yours. But what's made an even bigger difference is that ages ago, I bought ARC2 in a sale. It was sitting on the shelf doing nothing and since I got my D5's I bit the bullet, did all the mic measurements and got it set up. It's corrected most of the "bad stuff" in my room and when sitting in my mixing position (aka "sweet spot"), the D5's sound about as perfect as I can imagine.
If and when you're willing to spring for ARC2, do it! It will more than double the usefulness of your monitors. It may well even be going cheap on Amazon now (although I'm not sure). The biggest problem in my untreated studio is boomy bass and ARC2 has virtually eliminated it.
PS I just decided to screw my neighbors because they've never shown me any consideration during the years I've been hiding under headphones so as not to disturb them.
+1 on the ARC 2 system! The virtual monitoring that it offers is worth the price.
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rcrees
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 07, 14 9:42 PM
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Wow, learn something every day here… I did not even know that such a thing (ARC2) existed! I'll have to do some homework now. Thanks, guys for the lead... Hey, Sharke… nice gear. I especially like the 2012 American Telecaster… I also have a Tele, but mine came with guacamole... a 2009 Mexican...
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John
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 07, 14 10:10 PM
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Using near field monitors is the only way to mix. Use headphones as a supplemental check.
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AT
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 1:22 AM
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Same as John above. Monitors, esp. w/ larger woofers (6-8 inches) give you a more ... realistic impression of your music. You don't have to mix loud - in fact you shouldn't, except to check. Much like headphones. Checking balance and panning is what I use headphones for. the yamas ought to be fine for most mixing duties. Several "real" studios I know use(d) the smaller mps's as their nearfields. Worked like a charm. @
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Grem
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 1:46 AM
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rcrees
but mine came with guacamole... a 2009 Mexican...
I have two Squire Strats that I had planned to sell for what I paid for them ($225 used) when I got my '93 G&L Legacy, but I still have them both. Some of the "cheaper" Fender stuff is quite good I find. Enjoy the guacamole!!
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musicroom
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 7:59 AM
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John Using near field monitors is the only way to mix. Use headphones as a supplemental check.
That's the best way to mix but not the only. I have some really good mixes that came from a pair of srh940's and a vrm box.
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jb101
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 8:09 AM
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Happy to hear that you're happy. Nice monitors make such a difference. Next on the list should be some room treatment. It's amazing what you can do with a little money and some DIY. Like you, I was ecstatic when I got my nearfields. I then saved up some more money for room treatment, and it was like getting another, better set of monitors. It made a HUGE difference. Enjoy.
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 8:43 AM
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I made a huge mistake and for many years worked with bad monitors. I never considered myself a mixer, but a composer....still should have had better monitoring. A big client of mine downsized and I picked up a used pair of Yamaha HS5s for 200 bucks at an auction. What a huge difference. One other thing I stumbled upon. A friend built me a sound blocking stand thing to put behind or around a mic to block reflections. It is about 2.5' wide and 4' high and stand about 6 feet tall on the wood frame he built. I have found that by placing it directly behind me while mixing makes a big difference. I can work very effectively at very low volume levels. I guess the point I'm getting at is ...good monitors in a good mixing environment makes thing a lot better. Wish I had done this years ago.
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Atsuko
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 11:56 AM
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WallyG
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 12:36 AM
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John Using near field monitors is the only way to mix. Use headphones as a supplemental check.
I use a good pair of headphones to do my initial mixing and mastering (so I won't drive my wife nuts hearing the same song over and over again). I use a "Redline Monitor" plug-in that emulates near-field monitors by mixing the correct amount of left signal into the right ear and vice-versa. I always end up with something that sounds great on the monitors. Walt
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rcrees
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 1:29 PM
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Jimbo 88 I made a huge mistake and for many years worked with bad monitors. I never considered myself a mixer, but a composer....
Same here. I thought that given my tiny, acoustically challenged space that I would never be able to get a good sound with monitors… didn't even know what "near field" meant. I do now, and I'm now more inspired to explore the acoustic treatment of my space further. Rob
http://www.rcreesmusic.com Dell XPS 8300, Intel Core i7, 8gigs ram, AMD Radeon 6670, Two SATA II 500gig hard drives, one 250gig external USB drive, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, M-Audio Keystation 61es, Windows 7 Home Premium, SONAR X3 Producer, many sample libraries including EastWest PLAYx64 Gold Complete, RA, Stormdrum and Choirs
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lawajava
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 08, 14 11:58 PM
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rcrees
Jimbo 88 I made a huge mistake and for many years worked with bad monitors. I never considered myself a mixer, but a composer....
Same here. I thought that given my tiny, acoustically challenged space that I would never be able to get a good sound with monitors… didn't even know what "near field" meant. I do now, and I'm now more inspired to explore the acoustic treatment of my space further. Rob
Agreed with the sentiment in this thread. Having monitors makes a world of difference in being able to get a mix to sound like it works in other places than your own set up with headphones. Monitors really help reveal where tweaks to the mix can make it sound better overall.
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Paul P
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 09, 14 6:26 PM
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And don't forget to take a stroll out in the hall and see what it sounds like from there.
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williamsblackman
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Re: Finally Mixing with Monitors instead of Headphones
July 09, 14 7:52 PM
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Adam f5 is the pair that changed my life of mixing
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