Helpful ReplyPhase vs Polarity: Drew? Bit? Other Math Whizzers?

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slartabartfast
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Re: wst3: MAYDAY! MAYDAY!! 2014/07/29 19:11:50 (permalink)
Well, phase difference and phase shift are essentially synonyms for the shift of the waveform compared to its previous position along the time axis discussed previously. Phase relationship is a essentially the same as phase shift but specifically implies you are comparing two different signals to one another and not to some abstract zero point. It also does not call for you to specify the actual amount of difference as phase shift would imply.
 
Phase change is the change of a material from one state to another as in melting ice.
 
 
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: wst3: MAYDAY! MAYDAY!! 2014/07/29 19:17:56 (permalink)
Hi David,
 Thanks.


#32
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Re: Phase vs Polarity: Drew? Bit? Other Math Whizzers? 2014/07/29 20:19:11 (permalink)
craigb
Polarity generally has two (opposing) values while phase relates to a segment in time often for a cyclic or repeating action.

 

Gee, sorry I couldn't be more help. 

 
Thanks for your help Craig.


#33
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wst3: MAYDAY! MAYDAY!! 2014/07/30 07:27:54 (permalink)
Ok, I think I figured out where I was glossing stuff over. Many of you made the observations but I could sense that for me there was something missing in the way I understood the various circumstances. I woke up this morning and it all seemed to click.
 
Phase: Phase is a condition that compares two signals where one signal is referenced to another.
 
Phase Shift: Phase Shift can be described in terms of angle or time.
 
Phase Shift Angle: Phase Shift Angle only applies to periodic wave forms of a single frequency, and more specifically to a sine wave of a single frequency. Phase angle is specifically a measure of time describing the duration between two points on a sine wave of some specific frequency.
 
Phase Shift Time: Phase Shift as time, e.g. milliseconds, can apply to wave forms that represent multiple frequencies combined. Phase Shift described as time can be useful to describe changes in phase when the use of the concept of phase angle does not apply.
 
Phase difference: is the difference, expressed in electrical degrees or time, between two waves having the same frequency and referenced to the same point in time [1] 
 
Comparing Polarity and Phase Angle:
 
If a sine wave at some specific frequency is compared to an example of the very same sine wave that has been flipped across the baseline it is thought to have reverse polarity. It is incorrect to describe this condition of reverse polarity as 180* out of phase because angle of phase, as it applies to a sine wave of a specific frequency, describes a passage of time referenced to the time it takes to complete 1 cycle at the frequency of the sine wave. If the polarity is simply reversed and there is no shift in time then the use of the parameter "phase angle" does not apply. The term Phase Angle does not merely describe a geometric angle. Phase angle is specifically a measure of time describing the duration between two points on a sine wave of some specific frequency.
 
If a sine wave at some specific frequency is compared to another sine wave of the very same frequency and the phase difference of the two sine waves is in fact 180* then it may be said that the sine waves effectively have reversed polarity.
 
If a waveform, made up of a combination of multiple frequencies, is compared to a second example of the very same waveform that has been flipped across the baseline it is thought to have reverse polarity.  It is incorrect to describe this condition of reverse polarity as 180* out of phase because angle of phase does not apply to a waveform made up of a combination of multiple frequencies. The the use of the parameter "phase angle" is frequency specific. Consideration of phase angle can not apply to waveforms that represent combinations of multiple frequencies.
 
 
 
Phase Cancellation: Phase Cancellation is a term that refers to the effects of Constructive Interference and Destructive Interference as it applies to the phenomena of wave propagation. 
 
 
 
 
I have thought, for many years, that I understood this, but this morning was the first time I was able to see it all at once and make sense of the parts I had left muddled as a convenience.
 
 
Thank you to everyone for making comments and taking the time to help me focus my thoughts.
 
As always, if I have made some statement that warrants correction I am eager to learn about it and continue learning.
 
Thank You.
 
post edited by mike_mccue - 2014/07/30 09:59:30


#34
drewfx1
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Re: wst3: MAYDAY! MAYDAY!! 2014/07/30 12:43:21 (permalink)
Mike, it also depends on context.
 
Mathematically if you are thinking about a unit circle, it wraps around at 360° = 0°, and in fact shifting the phase by 180° is the same as as multiplying by -1. This is a basic trigonometric formula.
 
The same thing happens if you're talking about an infinitely long, steady state sine wave.
 
But when we're thinking about audio signals, we don't have infinite length signals and our audio doesn't wrap around* (where if we shift something to the right the part that got shifted past the end gets put in the hole left at beginning).
 
So it's a case of theoretical perfection and practical reality, and shifting something in time by 180° isn't exactly the same thing as inverting polarity because we aren't on a unit circle and/or aren't dealing with an infinite signal [EDIT: and we aren't dealing with pure sine waves at a single frequency], and we have to account for that.
 
 
*Except in some DSP

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#35
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Re: wst3: MAYDAY! MAYDAY!! 2014/07/30 19:48:06 (permalink)
Thank you for adding your comments Drew. I always value your advice and insights.
 
I just rolled in to New Orleans so I will not be online for a day or two, but I wanted to thank you before a few days slipped by without an acknowledgement of your help.


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