Who Came Up with the Idea of Using Sidechaining to Feed a Track into another Track?

This is the first thread I recall http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3050940

scook
This is the first thread I recall http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3050940

That's the one!! Thank you. So Ludwig, if you don't want your name or studio mentioned in the article, let me know otherwise I'll include that info in the credit.

Actually, I'm not using this for the purpose mentioned in the original post. What I want to do could be done with buses; it's a reverse gated reverb effect that doesn't sound quite like the Eric Prydz "pumping drums" effect used on the "Valerie" remix, but has the same kind of "breathing" effect. So basically, I'm using the Sonitus Gate as a plug-in the way you describe. It's a straight pass-through monitoring of the sidechain input to the output. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to strip away everything except the sidechain input and an output, but realistically, the gate isn't CPU-heavy and you can just ignore the stuff you don't want.
 
As you point out, the main advantage of this approach is workplace organization - for a complex project, I can put the tracks in a folder and be done with them. I may also try this for multiband processing; currently I just clone a track and process each instance. 
 
 

I'm a Steve Winwood fan, met him in New York back in the day and also interviewed him a few years back. He's a super-nice guy and a class act. I saw him open for Tom Petty a couple weeks ago, and he had the mostly under-30 demographic in the palm of his hand. It was just him and four other musicians, no light show, no pyrotechnics, just really good music from the heart and when the band finished their set, they got a standing ovation. It was well-deserved.
 
The squashing/ducking thing has been done before, listen to what happens to the cymbals on some of the Traffic and Beatles cuts, particularly Traffic's "Hole in My Shoe." Prydz just took it to a different level. But it's not about hi-fi, it's about pushing and straining. I really like a lot of punk, I thought the Damned were pretty cool, and while Trent Reznor is in a class by himself I think he's managed to make really artful industrial sounds. All music lives within a frame of reference, and whether it's to an individual's liking or not, the context matters.
 
The first time I heard John Coltrane's Ascension I thought it was horrible. I mentioned that to a friend who said "Well, his earlier stuff was quite different." It was, and I thought it was great. So I got into Coltrane and started listening from those early albums onward. At one point, I  caught up with Ascension but when I heard it after hearing the logical procession that led up to it, I thought it was genius. Eric Prydz is no Coltrane, but it illustrates my point about context.
 
FWIW, Winwood was so impressed by Prydz's track he re-cut some of the vocals to fit the remix better. I like the track, I think the way Prydz weaves Winwood's vocal in and out of the mix is really quite evocative. Of course, the original is a gem, and Winwood's voice is so amazingly soulful that anything with his voice on it can't go too terribly wrong. But if you listen to the track as more of a re-invention of that vocal than as something comparable, I think it makes more sense. Yes, I probably would have mixed it somewhat differently, but I thought it was pretty cool...and if it's good enough for Steve Winwood, it's good enough for me 

RickJP909
Well, that told me Craig.    I can't argue with that.  And let's be honest, forums would be pretty boring without a bit of banter.
 
Mind you, who would argue if some current producer approached them to revamp their 30 year old song and re-release it to the modern generation because as the original writer/composer, you do nothing and you'll get huge royalties from it so it makes good business sense really.
 
To Winwood's defence, at least he re-did the vocals so obviously he cared to a degree!

You're still more than entitled not to like the song   It was not the first remix, and there was a use of the sample that pre-dated Prydz. People just like the song. He co-wrote it with Will Jennings, his frequent lyricist.
 
I doubt he got huge royalties, although I don't know. Typically the rights for a sample like that are relatively small compared to mechanical rights for the song. And of course when Winwood re-did the vocals, he would have had no idea that the song would blow up as much as it did.
 
I've had a few songs remixed for the dance market and yes, it's flattering. But it's also very cool to hear how someone will take your idea and completely turn it around. I suspect Winwood isn't any more immune to that than anyone else.
 
As an aside, it's really great that he continues to be successful and has been able to maintain a solid career for so long. He re-invented/re-worked a lot of his songs when he played them live, he didn't just "play the hits" so I suspect his mindset is pretty open about how is music is treated.

I just wish Steve and Jimi had more time together...

Make sure the button below the Output label on the Gate is set to Sidech.

OK, the routing is not right. The Output button does not affect the ability to sidechain. Try this:
1) Add a new audio track
2) Insert the Gate in the new audio track FX bin
3) Add a send to the original audio track (the one with clips already in it) pointing to the Gate
4) Enable the Sidech. output of the Gate
5) Start transport. Now both the original track and the track created in #1 should play.

Anderton

RickJP909
Speaking of the "ducking effect" Craig, what would be cool is something (a VST) that does exactly that using a MIDI trigger instead of having to use a sidechain input. I'm aware of the LFO Tool but is there something cheaper or bundled in X1 or X2? 

 
So basically...you want a MIDI-triggered envelope generator? You can use the Z3TA as an effects processor to do that.
 

Here is a process using the free 32bit plug-in AudioToCC

Looks like you are gonna need to upgrade to X3 to make it work. Just tried and confirmed it does not work in X2a.

As a possible alternative, if your soundcard|ASIO drivers|software supports it, then you can route track(s) out to an unused ASIO output bus, connect that to an unused ASIO input bus and then use that as the input to the audio track in Sonar.  However, this depends entirely upon the capabilities of your soundcard, not Sonar.
 
I used this technique to set-up a dub reggae style echo as per one of Mr Anderton's Sonar tips videos (X1 Advanced Workshop : Looping IIRC).
 
The only other way I can think of would be to mix down the required tracks, not exactly a flexible arrangement but workable.