Touch Screen: So close yet so far??

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azslow3
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/09 16:31:45 (permalink)
My good friend has explained me interesting view on touch screens (not sure it is original) with which I agree: touch screens and the whole tablet story is super idea in the CONSUMER area (so for consumption of some content). Listen music, quick check e-mails, look at news, read books, etc. But as soon as it comes to PRODUCING the content, that is still far from perfect and in many cases unusable. Writing e-mails, books and specially programs is at least harder than using conventional methods. I think everyone can move master slider on its mixer without even looking at it. I can not do the same with tablet. Some people was smart designing black keys on significantly different height from white keys, I do not want them "optimized" down to absolutely flat surface...
 
When you open a text editor for the first time, it is great when you see buttons with "Bold", "Italic", "Table". At this phase you are consumer of that "product". But as soon as you start writing long text (become a producer of the text), you start to look for keyboard shortcuts. You no longer want "click" on all that fancy icons. At some point you do not even want to see them (they take useful space...). Is it different with music software?

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#31
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/09 16:44:24 (permalink)
After spending about an hour trying to insert an image to my post
to show you my studio set up, I gave up.
This should be so simple that one need not do a search which I did.
I belong to other forums and this is the first time this happened.
Oh well, such is life.
One hour totally wasted!
 
 

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#32
azslow3
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/09 16:47:08 (permalink)
Vas
After spending about an hour trying to insert an image to my post
to show you my studio set up, I gave up.

You just need several posts more... Spam protection.

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
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#33
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/09 18:53:39 (permalink)
Sorry for detracting from the OP
the forum could have saved me wasting an hour by
putting a note "if you have less than X post you cannot
insert an image form your computer"
 
Back on the subject:
After playing around a bit more with the cardboard mockup
the 40" screen may be the max for a studio musician that also
has monitors mounted vertical behind the multi-touch monitor.
 
As for me a 32" to 36" may be what is best for me. Yes the 40"
just may be a bit too large however I need to find the maximum size
that fits in my studio desk.
 
For a DJ or an energetic musician a single monitor bigger than 40"
may be desirable and useful.
 
 

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#34
gswitz
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/09 21:19:19 (permalink)
So, I just want to say (an many know) that I really don't agree that touch can't replace a real control surface. I really like my touch screen. It works with Linux Ubuntu Studio too. When I touch something I know what I'm controlling. It really works quite well.
 
Now, I've never had a large board with motorized faders. I have an Alpha Track controller that I never really took to seriously. I mainly use the Alpha Track for transport control when Sonar will not be the program with the focus a lot of the time. This enables me to start and stop playback without making Sonar take the focus and come in front of 20 instances of RME DigiCheck.
 
I only use one monitor, and I adjust it as I want when I want. When I add my wife's TV for a second monitor, it gets finger prints all over it from me trying to touch it. I think the day will come where I need another.
 
One thing touch has caused me to do is get more practiced with the Overwrite/Latch and Touch Write Modes to get what I'm after.
 
Don't forget Windows and the + button (Alt L for lens) Lens zoom and windows button escape to undo. This allows you to zoom on anything you want and touch more explicitly. The lens can be dragged.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#35
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 10:39:05 (permalink)
John
 
If you don't have a real CS touch may be an alternative that over time will get better. However I do think with both we have perhaps the best of both worlds. The only trouble I see is where do we put all this gear?
 



 
That is my concern as well.   Anything that goes on my desk is at the expense of something else already on my desk.
 
The touch monitor was nice, but it required me to move my music keyboard to the side.  Not happy with that, I built a sliding keyboard tray under my new daw workstation, with the keys in front again.  But now the keyboard was too low so I lowered my seat, and now the keys were a bit high, but I was willing to live with this compromise, because I had a touch monitor. . .
 
THen I really evaluated the Sonar touch experience and realized that its nowhere close to a dedicated touch surface.  I just want hardware transport controls and control over the channel strip with real knobs.
 
So now I'm looking at the transport controls and fader banks on my Axiom 61 (currently unused) . . . I could use those, but the faders are not motorized and it involves a bunch of custom mapping which I don't want to get into.
 
Which brings me back to wanting a MCU or clone.. . BUT again they take up too much real estate and would require me to move my keys.
 
For a project studio that is mostly for writing/creation, I think a control surface integrated with the Keyboard is a good choice, or maybe some of the smaller surfaces like the Nanocontrol that do the basics and can fit anywhere.
 
 

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#36
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 10:44:28 (permalink)
gswitz
 
I only use one monitor, and I adjust it as I want when I want. When I add my wife's TV for a second monitor, it gets finger prints all over it from me trying to touch it. I think the day will come where I need another.
 

I have had one, two, and three monitor setups and prefer one monitor because more than that impacts placement of the audio monitors (or two monitors means that neither is centered.  That is why I am using Sonar, because it has the best interface and works perfectly on a single screen.
 
I have considered enabling virtual desktops on my DAW.  Linux has this capability built in and for my Windows workstation (work) I'm using something called "Dexpot" which is highly configurable.

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#37
John
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 11:19:34 (permalink)
My setup is in a u shape.  The desk is in front with a rack to the right and a keyboard to the left. I also have a drawer for my computer keyboard.  On top is the MC. I also have a flatbed scanner there. My displays and near field monitors are on a shelf above the desk and supported by it.
 
I have had it setup with the MC off to the side using a small table. There is a support that music stores sell that can hold it. These can also be used for a small footprint mixer. 
 
At present there is no obvious place to put a touch screen but the MC can be moved with out losing its use. Because it has a nice LCD channel strip its easy to know where you are with it.
 
Also at present, as far as I know, Sonar is the only program that fully supports touch. None of the other main programs I use do so. So to sum up the MC is staying where it is for now and touch will have to wait awhile.

Best
John
#38
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 13:10:07 (permalink)
Here is my current studio setup:
http://www.artmusicdance.com/IMG_0821.JPG
Hope to eventually get rid of the iPad and put a Windows 10, 36” monitor in its place.
(Notice I am no longer saying 40” and may soon go down to a 32”)
I will use the multi-touch monitor as the keyboard or note generator and for any other function.
The top monitors swing in and out. 7” to the desktop.  My desktop is very deep.
The iPad and qwerty keyboards can slide under the top monitors.
The bottom qwerty can fit under the base platform.
I will not need any qwerty as a gesture will produce one on the multi-touch monitor. For serious writing I will have a real qwerty on the shelf ready for use. Would also be great to have a mouse pad appear on the multi-touch monitor and be able to also point on the top screens. Otherwise having a mouse on the desktop may be inconvenient and a bit out of reach. There are however some solutions I am contemplating.
I will have to design a base for the 36” multi-touch monitor so that it can slide forward and slide back under the two top monitors.
 
I also hope to use the multi-touch monitor when working with Photoshop.

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#39
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 13:25:34 (permalink)
You have crammed a lot of gear in there, Vas. 

Best
John
#40
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 13:29:56 (permalink)
John
You have crammed a lot of gear in there, Vas. 


True. it is well organized and it works great.
In any case it is not perfect but a good compromise.

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#41
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 15:17:28 (permalink)
I almost forgot. On the bottom right of the image to the right of the blue cloth (to clean the ipad) the little wooden triangle with a white center, well that swings out and the surface created is for a mouse.  I need not worry where to put the mouse in case I use a 36" multi-touch screen is incorporated in the studio setup.

Sonar Platinum, S1 3, FL Studio 12, Cubase 7.5, Komplete 8, Waves Gold, Melodyne Studio 4, Windows 10 - 64bit, GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R Rev 2, Intel Xeon W3690, 12GB RAM, 23" 10-touch ViewSonic and iPad Air as midi controller, iConnectMIDI2+, FireBox, Shuttle Pro2
#42
John
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 16:04:07 (permalink)
So you have a little mouse house.

Best
John
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 16:38:40 (permalink)
For the price of the touch monitor, win8 upgrade, and a SSD, I instead ordered an ICON QCon Pro.  Its a MCU clone with a few nice additions.  Led level meters per channel, illuminated buttons, tilt panel, and nice silver/white color.
 
I was looking into the smaller control surfaces, and the one that caught my eye was the ICON iControls Pro, which has eight motorized faders and transport controls.  I would have gone with this one, but it didn't look like there was a way to set punch in/out points and markers, so for a little bit more, went with the big brother QCON model.
 
I also like the Behringer X-Touch and xtouch compact which are supposed to be out later this year, but chose the iCon mostly for aesthetic reasons.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMjcBgODyAQ
 
 

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#44
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 16:40:52 (permalink)
More like a mouse pedestal. The mouse will fall off the
pedestal and dethroned when we start using our
fingers to cat around on the multi-touch screen.

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#45
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 18:18:27 (permalink)
What is that white board with squares?

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#46
Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 18:56:20 (permalink)
That's the Maxi:
http://www.artmusicdance.com/vasmusic/maxi.htm
I made it to experiment.

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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 19:51:26 (permalink)
That is incredible. Wow Vas.  

Best
John
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Vas
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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/10 20:40:10 (permalink)
John
That is incredible. Wow Vas.  


John, thanks for the resounding approval.
 
If only some of the creativity going in the development for apps on the iPad were to be focused on the Windows multi-touch VST's, VSTi's, DAW's and Controllers  I will be extremely happy. Having more real estate these iPad developers will produce even bigger and better apps for the the Windows multi-touch environment. I can't wait for them to unleash their creative genius but I do wonder why the lack of interest for them to do so for Windows 8 musicians.
 
 
post edited by Vas - 2014/11/11 09:51:32

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Re: Touch Screen: So close yet so far?? 2014/11/14 18:21:25 (permalink)
I just finished another adventure with a QCON Pro controller.  It works well in Samplitude, but I'm using Sonar these days and it doesnt work.  There are some workarounds, but it will never be 100%.
 
Apparently the Cakewalk Mackie Control plug-in has issues and they are not devoting any resources to fixing it.  This probably means that future MCU-based units like the X-Touch will not work with Sonar. 
 
I know that earlier this year Cake open sourced the control surface APIs; I suppose no one has taken the time to modify/fix the mcu with Sonar.
 
It appears that it will be touch or nothing moving forward... 

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#50
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