John T
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 19:51:55
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Hey, no problem. I can talk about this stuff all day. And as Craig says, anyone who's keen and interested and trying to figure stuff out constructively is always a pleasure to talk to.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 19:57:29
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Thinking back over everything I've waffled here, I think the main thing is headroom. If you come in low, you can always make it loud further down the chain.
Back in the tape days, 0dB VU was what we thought of as "in the red". But actually, that was always calibrated to leave a lot of headroom. And you could thus have some fun driving stuff into the red for the saturation you'd get from it.
I can't remember the general consensus on this, but I think of about -10dB digital as being the same as 0dB VU. It's not a perfect analogy, but it works ok as a rule of thumb.Certainly, a lot of the ProChannel stuff seems to work well around that assumption.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Splat 
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 20:02:17
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Moved to techneques forum. It's about Sonar as well but want to improve the forums useage.
Thanks..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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sharke
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 20:39:47
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It's a pity that this forum isn't based on a tag system - there are a lot of threads which would sit quite happily in more than one forum. For instance imagine if you could tag this as "Sonar" and "Techniques" and see it in both.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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John T
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 20:44:48
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Hmm, yeah, that'd be good.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 20:45:31
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Alex is right though, all of this is general practice and not Sonar-specific.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Splat
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 21:23:17
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There is tagging in the forums software, I think there was a thread about it already in forum discussion forum if not you could create one.. Cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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gswitz
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 21:34:18
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Couple of thoughts...
Some FX simulate overloading well below the point of clipping. You may hear an emulation of saturation well on the safe side of clipping.
I think the VSTs can report clipping (just wild guess really) other than level in and level out. An example of this is if you raise the gain in a compressor internal to the compressor to the point that you clip it, then compress it below the clipping point. Does the VST tell the host (Sonar)? I think so.
In any case, the Pro Channel plugs and the FX Bin can report how hot the signal is into the plugins (color of blinking light). The power light for the PC shows if ANY of them are clipping. Unfortunately, it doesn't have a clip-hold feature so you have to be watching it to know.
One way to discover levels between plugs is to drag Channel Tools in. That will give you meters where you want them.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Anderton
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 23:04:31
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Okay, here's a definitive answer for the ProChannel. I generated a 1 kHz sine wave at 0.0 peak and brought it into a track, everything set at 0, PC pre-FX bin. The Gain control is what determines the signal level feeding the ProChannel.
The overload indicator with the EQ (first processor in the chain) enabled but all settings flat produced a red ring around the outside of the indicator but a yellow circle inside. As soon as the gain control went from 0.0 to +0.1, the indicator turned solid red.
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gswitz
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/07 23:16:25
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Craig,
Do different FX report differently their status? In other words, can an effect report a clip if the input and out put are both -1?
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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batsbrew
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/08 11:59:39
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EVERY MODULE....
say, EQ section, FX section....
has it's own gain control.
you must treat each one with respect and authority.
GAIN STAGING
it happens at every level, and especially at EQ,
and especially if you are boosting frequencies instead of cutting,
even freqs you can't really hear, will boost level.
follow your gain levels at every step thru an entire signal chain,
and learn the sweet spots, learn the specific headroom limitations of each piece of gear,
and KNOW your gain staging.
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Anderton
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Re: Are The Clipping Indicators Accurate?
2014/12/09 12:14:55
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gswitz
Craig,
Do different FX report differently their status? In other words, can an effect report a clip if the input and out put are both -1?
I only tested with effects enabled, but set not to process the sound (e.g., EQ stages flat).
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