Helpful ReplyI challenge you to a mix

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SimpleManZ
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:10:05 (permalink)
I setup a new project using the Normal Template.
Dragged all 34 tracks in.
Press play at default; that is, all tracks, master buss and audio output set at 0db.
Jeez, sounding overblown!!!!
 
Place Sonitus compressor 'Vintage Mix' on the master buss.
Sounds good.
Add the Sonitus Reverb to the to the snare, track 6 with 'Drum Room' preset.
Add to the lead VOX, track 86 the Sonitus Surround with 'Center Room' preset.
 
Less than half hour. But I think I can do more by disobeying Dan and pull out the full gambit of "Pro Channel" and all my other plugs...........  Need to solo listen to each tracks and setup sub busses etc.
 
#31
jb101
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:10:44 (permalink)
John T
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Glad you liked the challenge! It's crazy different when you put a time limit on yourself - especially with a track as expansive as this one.

I'll tell you what really blew the time for me: the switch back and forth between the drum machine drums and the real (or real-sounding) drums. A consistent kit all the way through is far less of a challenge, and you can kind of set and forget, at least for a rough mix. Making that switch work, mix-wise, demands some time and attention. Especially given that that change is key to what's cool about the track.


I got a not bad sound on the acoustic sounding kit, but I hadn't even really touched the electronic drums when the buzzer went off and I was escorted off the stage.
 




Here here, except I found myself the other way round - I didn't leave myself enough time with the acoustic kit.

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#32
jb101
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:12:35 (permalink)
Anyway, off to bed now as an early start to see Santa tomorrow/ later today.
 
I will have another play, when time permits..

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mettelus
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:14:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2014/12/21 21:38:51
Wow, the time part of this was the biggest hurdle... I did not include importing, assigning track folders/busses (i.e. housekeeping), or the initial listen to the 30 minutes; but then I started the clock.
 
Knowing the time constraint, I focused mostly on faders, EQ, compression, and reverb. Busses were assigned to Drums, Backing Vocals, and Guitars. Much more fader work than effects, EQ on Lead Vox, Kick, Snare, HH (rest on busses). Time ran out, so much of this is "right down the middle" as far as stereo spread, with only minimal spread to drums, and wide spread on the Backing Vox. I initially set the resonance of the kick way too high, so lost the pan time correcting that flub.
 
To maximize time efficiently, I worked on Lead Vox->Drums->Guitars for effect, and copied FX to get closer to the mark. When listening I looped several sections to balance out the mix (a lot of looping/soloing done in 30 minutes).
 
Anyway, 30 minutes as quick as I could work: http://www.ariphys.com/Documents/Challenge.mp3
 
Edit: Time was the biggest factor here by far, so the "heavy hitters" in the mix got the most focus (FX work), while other elements were worked at a buss-level, and some only with faders (such as the Rhodes and cowbell). I took time to tailor the kick, snare and HH (taming that rim shot, but oddly not taming the high end which came through more than I wanted on the export). Big things I learned here:
  1. My screen was not set up properly (only one screen initially), and the console became a menace to navigate. Screensets would have also helped this, although I should have had the console on the second monitor before I started.
  2. Even though I did housekeeping, I never colored the tracks/busses, so that made #1 even worse.
  3. Unfamiliarity with Sonitis FX. Not used these in years, and found the controls being sensitive a hurdle at first. Also due to time, I compensated by only using the top level controls of each effect.
  4. It became obvious early on that to make 30 minutes and achieve something that "polishing" was unlikely. Although I would have liked to do a lot more, I was forced to focus on the main elements first.
  5. I should have panned at the time of EQ (which would have saved time), but missed this for the most part due to the kick drum flub.*
  6. No automation was used, but that was a nicety I would like to have included.
  7. The console view got more use in this exercise than I typically do! Finding FX quickly while using the track view for navigation helped a lot. However, I can see the hurdle of this with more than three FX in that bin, so support the feature request of that automatically expanding to size (I think the feature request was specifically for sends though).
  8. My navigation could have been much faster if I was more familiar with keyboard shortcuts. I found incentive to learn them better with this exercise.
  9. Vagrant thoughts of inserting sends got squashed early into this exercise as the time limit became apparent right away.
 
 *The system I mix with does not have a sub-woofer, but the 5.1 system connected to my RealTek HD does. I did not notice the kick was packing a wild punch until after the first export.
post edited by mettelus - 2014/12/22 05:13:50

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#34
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:35:13 (permalink)
OK, I feel like a wuss now someone's posted one, so I'm going to export mine.

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John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:48:38 (permalink)

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#36
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 21:55:33 (permalink)
mettelus
To maximize time efficiently, I worked on Lead Vox->Drums->Guitars for effect, and copied FX to get closer to the mark. When listening I looped several sections to balance out the mix (a lot of looping/soloing done in 30 minutes).
 



This is interesting. There's a good discussion to be had about how everyone gets from looking up at the mountain to actually climbing the thing, as it were.
 
First thing I always do is set up a loop, once I've listened a few times and identified a good bit of the song to start working on.
 
This is almost never the intro; I usually like to find a fairly loud "up" bit. Not necessarily the chorus or the absolute peak, but very rarely a quiet bit.
 
The very second thing I always do is what I think of as "repair work". This is mostly EQ, but generally not, at this point, to refine relative tone or placement of anything. I just listen out for tracks that I think have problem frequency areas, and go and fix those.
 
This is mostly one of three things. 1/ Hi passing stuff with unnecessary rumble and low end. 2/ low passing stuff with too much high end. 3/ (and most importantly) notching out nasty resonances and fizz wherever I can find them.
 
Did a lot of 3/ on the guitars and vocals on this. Not knocking Dan's tracking; that's generally where that problem is.
 
The above, plus basic drum and bass mix, took about 20 of the 30 mins. Rest was spent, more or less, on what I think of as relative EQ (getting things out of each others' way), panning, and reverb. Oh, and there's a delay on the lead vocal.
 
post edited by John T - 2014/12/21 22:04:34

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#37
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 22:06:10 (permalink)
Dan, is this you singing on your track? Whoever it is sounds like Paul Weller, I think. Great lead vocal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_M8m4Yr7vc
 
 

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#38
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 22:12:12 (permalink)
Thinking more about how I start mixes.... I work in mono for quite a while, at the start of a mix. If I wasn't trying to hit the 30 min limit, I normally wouldn't pan anything for the first couple of hours working on a thing. I always try to get as good separation as I can in mono, without reverb. So basically just EQ, compression, and fader level. Occasionally, if I know something needs to be more distant than something else, I might use reverb early on, on a couple of tracks.

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#39
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 22:15:14 (permalink)
Where's Danny Danzi? I want to hear him do this.

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bentleyousley
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 23:21:03 (permalink)
... or you can go to the March 2009 issue of Sound On Sound online and see how the Mix Rescue guys mixed it:
 
http://www.soundonsound.c...les/mixrescue_0309.htm

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#41
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/21 23:26:50 (permalink)
Ah, interesting. But doesn't observe the limitations Dan proposed, which are interesting ones, I reckon.

I think there's a more worthwhile topic here than "how to mix this song". This is a good starting point for "how do you mix and why?" I'd like to read more about that from everyone.

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#42
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 01:31:50 (permalink)
John T
Be gentle.
 
https://soundcloud.com/john-tatlock/dgchallenge/s-thqWp
 
 

I haven't had a chance to download the files and your mix was the first time I listened to the song. I didn't do it from a critical point of view as I only had my iPad's crappy speaker ( not ear buds)

I like the arrangement and look forward to hearing it on my studio system once I get a chance to download. Considering the limitations of my listening environment I think you did a good job of showing the movement through the song. vocals, rhythm and the melody lines all easily discernible John T. well done.

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#43
Karyn
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 04:51:47 (permalink)
John T
I think there's a more worthwhile topic here than "how to mix this song". This is a good starting point for "how do you mix and why?" I'd like to read more about that from everyone.

This is a great idea, but should be in the techniques forum...   (as should this whole thread really, but I'm not arguing with the Bakers.) (again)
 
For now, please try to keep replies on topic and we'll start something more indepth later.

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#44
TomHelvey
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 06:54:35 (permalink)
Not possible in 30 min. Even if I were doing a live show, 34 channels would take at least 30 min just to get the inputs trimmed and the groups assigned not to mention EQ. I'm not going to bother trying to do it in 30 with Sonitus, but I love to mix stuff so I really want to play with it and see how good I can get it to sound and I abhor rules so I'm gonna cheat.
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#45
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 08:23:10 (permalink)
John T
Be gentle.
 
https://soundcloud.com/john-tatlock/dgchallenge/s-thqWp
 
 


In 30 min? Good job!

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#46
John T
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 09:01:46 (permalink)
mettelus
  1. Vagrant thoughts of inserting sends got squashed early into this exercise as the time limit became apparent right away.

I haven't given this any thought in a while, but my standard mix template has a reverb bus and a delay bus, and the standard draft reverb I use is the Sonitus. So all I had to do was switch the delay I have in there for the Sonitus one, and I was up and running. I find this is really helpful for quickly sketching in an overall soundstage. I always end up changing them once I've made some progress, but it's really handy for getting things moving.

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#47
gswitz
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 09:21:45 (permalink)
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20141222_ForumChallenge.mp3
 
I didn't read more than the first post before giving it a try.
 
My biggest problem was the time constraint. I started the clock only after the tracks were imported and didn't include the fast bounce/export/mp3 conversion and posting.
 
I used 2 multibands instead of a limiter. I didn't take time to highpass everything... I just depressed everything below 50 on the master bus.
 
First, I visually noticed 3 sections of the song where different groups of instruments played. I quick-selected these instrument sets and set them to different busses. I sent the bass direct to master with no verb. I added verb and compression to lead vocal and sent direct to master bus.
 
I set a color for each of the busses so I could see which tracks related to which section then Alt dragged them into clusters so I could quickly address related tracks.
 
I added different Sonitus verbs to the 3 busses which I named 1,2 and 3. :-)
 
I added a gated verb which I used on only 1 section of the song where the snare seemed to be missing life.
 
I used some draw automation on the vocal and ctrl+dragged a sign oscillation on the main vocal pan.
 
I listened a couple of times to get volume ebu meter around -14.
 
I used some quick groups for splitting out the stereo image. I grouped some items and used group manager to have the pans mirror to save time setting inverted pans.
 
I used the Console View almost exclusively.
 
Bounced and exported.
post edited by gswitz - 2014/12/22 09:37:32

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#48
joel77
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 10:12:14 (permalink)
John T
Be gentle.
 
https://soundcloud.com/john-tatlock/dgchallenge/s-thqWp

 
Damn John, that's a great mix. 30 minutes or not! Congrates!!
 
Of course we can all hear things we'd do differently, but that's true of ANY song. From ANY mixer.
 
Nice job. And KUDOS for hanging it out there!!  lol

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Paul P
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 10:54:07 (permalink)
John
Why just 30 min? I like to take forever to mix!



It's going to take me more than 30 minutes just to get set up within X3.
I'm going to use this for practice and learn from you experts.
One thing I already know about myself is that I have a lot to learn !
 
 

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Wookiee
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 11:05:18 (permalink)
May be a feeble excuse but six of my audio files seem to have corruption does anyone else see this or did my download just not happen well.

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#51
jsaras
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 15:36:35 (permalink)
It's mostly volume, panning, very moderate EQ and a couple of instances of the reverb and a delay.  I went for a live band aesthetic.  Only the vocal has compression on it.  The Sonitus single-band compressor is perhaps my least favorite of the suite.  I used the Sonitus multiband compressor on the master bus reluctantly, just because most expect a certain volume level.  

The Sonitus effects are perfectly acceptable but they really don't have that last 10% that takes it into sonic nirvana.  Plugins have come a long way since the early days of digital.

http://www.audiorecordingandservices.com ("one minute free" mastering)

http://tinyurl.com/3n6kj (free Sonar mixing template and Ozone mastering preset)
#52
gswitz
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 15:47:56 (permalink)
@jsaras -- Your mix rocks!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#53
jsaras
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 16:16:42 (permalink)
Thanks gswitz!

http://www.audiorecordingandservices.com ("one minute free" mastering)

http://tinyurl.com/3n6kj (free Sonar mixing template and Ozone mastering preset)
#54
John
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 16:52:48 (permalink)
Great to see you Jonas. 

Best
John
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brconflict
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 16:58:13 (permalink)
I'm not sure I get the idea, unless it's to demonstrate that the Sonitus FX can do a lot more than people give them credit for, maybe?

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#56
jsaras
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 17:21:20 (permalink)
I did it to show how awesome Sonar 8.53 still is ;-D

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http://tinyurl.com/3n6kj (free Sonar mixing template and Ozone mastering preset)
#57
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 17:35:45 (permalink)
brconflict
I'm not sure I get the idea, unless it's to demonstrate that the Sonitus FX can do a lot more than people give them credit for, maybe?




Naw, I just wanted to see what people learn about themselves when they are limited to simple plugins and a time restraint :)
-DG
#58
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 17:36:17 (permalink)
Paul P
John
Why just 30 min? I like to take forever to mix!



It's going to take me more than 30 minutes just to get set up within X3.
I'm going to use this for practice and learn from you experts.
One thing I already know about myself is that I have a lot to learn !
 
 




Great! 
#59
gswitz
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Re: I challenge you to a mix 2014/12/22 19:11:46 (permalink)
Really, There is always a time constraint when I mix. How long until I get bored with it. :-)
 
I spent a lot of time grabbing FX Chains and pulling in the Sonitus Fx (4 levels deep in menus).
 
If I had floated the browser and just dragged in the FX with my finger, I might have had more time for configuring.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#60
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