Sonar X3 v Cubase 8

My post
http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=3126798

Best

I got Cubase Elements 7 for Christmas. They have not released Elements 8 yet. If it pans out I will upgrade.  I really just hate Sonars editing , copy, paste and multiple mouse click, menu stuff. It's been a year and hours and hours working with it and I'm still feel like I'm wearing lead shoes. 
I probably will always use Sonar, but for projects that I record that are mostly audio I really need better tools and editing. Sonar has become bogged down with features which are a great asset for most, but a hindrance to others. I think we need to try other DAW's just to see how it goes. 

What happened to the feature request site, Craig?

Personally, the only significant complaint I have with sonar is that it isn't available for Linux....

Yet.

Well I'm happy to report that Sonar blows Cubase away as far as I can tell after a week of recording a few songs from scratch in Cubase 7 . Mind you I'm only using Elements which would be the same as using plain X3. But unless there's way more to the basic features in the full version, I'm not impressed at all. As far as the literature say's all Cubase versions work the same with layout and basic functions, you just get more stuff as the price goes up the same as Sonar. If this is not true someone please correct me. 
Any one of use could open Plain Sonar x3 and set it up in a matter of minutes with nothing other than a few tools and plug ins missing. As a matter of fact we could open any version of Cakewalk and be OK.  The layout and editing should all be the same. So I'm basing my experience with Elements with the understanding that the things I find lacking, are global to all versions. Like adding an effect. 
 
I'll qualify myself by saying I like my DAW to more or less mimic the real world of audio. In other words I like to work as close to the way I am used to working with old school gear. 
If I want to add reverb to my Vocal tracks, I plug in a reverb unit and use an aux send and return it to blend it back to the Master output. I need to control both the level of the send, and the amount of the return.  We all know how simple this is in Sonar. And how visible the sends and the Reverb bus are, also how quickly we can pop open the GUI and make changes.
 
For the life of me I could not get used to Cubase's weird layout and I never found how to have an effects send control added to the track inspector. I have tried demos of Reaper which seem to work more logical than this. I could go on about every aspect of what I found but all I'm going to say is other than it's a solid stable DAW, it is weird to work with.  Over all it has a Sonar 5 feel to it. Nothing happening here folks, keep moving,
My family wasted $99 on my present  so I'll pretend I use it a lot :)  I think I can re sell it? 
I'm not totally sure it's registered because it does everything with the eLicencer.  
I might find a use for it as a lightweight live recorder. Just don't ask me to edit anything with it or make a mix down. 
 
Craig- my only frustration with Sonar is when I want to do something like lower or raise the level of one tiny phrase in an audio track. In Wave lab this takes one swipe and a mouse click. 
I guess it's not possible to have certain customization options available on a mouse click. 
I'm just going to have to dig deeper into Sonars Keybindings and such. For now it's just as easy to tool copy to Wave lab. 
 
The other thing that's been bugging me is when you go to chop up or slip edit an audio track with automation on it. All hell breaks loose. I just happen to have been happier with 8.5's track editing. It would have been cool to have an 8.5 editing mode! My problem is I just get busy working and recording and really don't have time to spend exploring options. 
I'm not kidding that it would be cool if Sonar had a Basic and Advanced Mode. 
 
Or instead of the 3 versions how about a version for each music production style. 
I'm paying for features that I have no use for like all those wonderful weird space fart synths and techno tools. 
 
My proposal would be:  
Sonar Audio - Optimized for audio editing and production, midi, basic synths. No looping or space farts. Easy to use by real musicians, bands and singer songwriters. 
 
Sonar Producer- Optimized for electronic music - Lite on the Audio tools and effects, but lots of synths and looping functions.  Easy to be used by people with no musical ability.  
 
Sonar Deluxe - Combines the Audio and Producer version.  Hard to use by both Musicians and Electronic Producers. This is sort of what we are getting now. 
 
 
 
 
 

dubdisciple
I tried elements and was not a fan at all.  Probably just feels too foreign

I think that's the gist of it. Every interface takes some training and getting used to.

Raising a range of a volume envelope is a swipe in the bottom half of the track, then click in the top half of the track and raise just that part of the envelope.

johnnyV
I try and avoid using envelopes because once they are added to a track I cannot split of slip edit the track anymore. I know this is something I'm not doing right but so be it for the last 6 months. I can level a track out perfectly and fast in Wave Lab, but it would be nice not to have to use another app to do this. 

I believe there is a setting (I can't remember where) that allows you to be able to do clip editing without it effecting any volume or panning envelopes. Of course, clip gain could be effected, but that's a given. You just have to make sure that you've selected clip on the track editor once you're done doing the volume automation.

I once read in a Cubase review that it was not easy to use. Is it harder to use than Sonar nowadays?

cclarry

kakku
I once read in a Cubase review that it was not easy to use. Is it harder to use than Sonar nowadays?

I find Cubase pretty straight forward.  I'm not a big fan of the interface.  Feature wise,
especially MIDI wise, Cubase kicks Sonar to the curb.  Interface wise Sonar kicks Cubase 
to the curb.  YMMV

Ok, thanks for the info.

johnnyV
Well I'm happy to report that Sonar blows Cubase away as far as I can tell after a week of recording a few songs from scratch in Cubase 7 . Mind you I'm only using Elements which would be the same as using plain X3. But unless there's way more to the basic features in the full version, I'm not impressed at all. As far as the literature say's all Cubase versions work the same with layout and basic functions, you just get more stuff as the price goes up the same as Sonar. If this is not true someone please correct me. 
Any one of use could open Plain Sonar x3 and set it up in a matter of minutes with nothing other than a few tools and plug ins missing. As a matter of fact we could open any version of Cakewalk and be OK.  The layout and editing should all be the same. So I'm basing my experience with Elements with the understanding that the things I find lacking, are global to all versions. Like adding an effect. 
 
I'll qualify myself by saying I like my DAW to more or less mimic the real world of audio. In other words I like to work as close to the way I am used to working with old school gear. 
If I want to add reverb to my Vocal tracks, I plug in a reverb unit and use an aux send and return it to blend it back to the Master output. I need to control both the level of the send, and the amount of the return.  We all know how simple this is in Sonar. And how visible the sends and the Reverb bus are, also how quickly we can pop open the GUI and make changes.
 
For the life of me I could not get used to Cubase's weird layout and I never found how to have an effects send control added to the track inspector. I have tried demos of Reaper which seem to work more logical than this. I could go on about every aspect of what I found but all I'm going to say is other than it's a solid stable DAW, it is weird to work with.  Over all it has a Sonar 5 feel to it. Nothing happening here folks, keep moving,
My family wasted $99 on my present  so I'll pretend I use it a lot :)  I think I can re sell it? 
I'm not totally sure it's registered because it does everything with the eLicencer.  
I might find a use for it as a lightweight live recorder. Just don't ask me to edit anything with it or make a mix down. 
 
Craig- my only frustration with Sonar is when I want to do something like lower or raise the level of one tiny phrase in an audio track. In Wave lab this takes one swipe and a mouse click. 
I guess it's not possible to have certain customization options available on a mouse click. 
I'm just going to have to dig deeper into Sonars Keybindings and such. For now it's just as easy to tool copy to Wave lab. 
 
The other thing that's been bugging me is when you go to chop up or slip edit an audio track with automation on it. All hell breaks loose. I just happen to have been happier with 8.5's track editing. It would have been cool to have an 8.5 editing mode! My problem is I just get busy working and recording and really don't have time to spend exploring options. 
I'm not kidding that it would be cool if Sonar had a Basic and Advanced Mode. 
 
Or instead of the 3 versions how about a version for each music production style. 
I'm paying for features that I have no use for like all those wonderful weird space fart synths and techno tools. 
 
My proposal would be:  
Sonar Audio - Optimized for audio editing and production, midi, basic synths. No looping or space farts. Easy to use by real musicians, bands and singer songwriters. 
 
Sonar Producer- Optimized for electronic music - Lite on the Audio tools and effects, but lots of synths and looping functions.  Easy to be used by people with no musical ability.  
 
Sonar Deluxe - Combines the Audio and Producer version.  Hard to use by both Musicians and Electronic Producers. This is sort of what we are getting now. 
 
 
 
 
 

Im assuming you already knew this, but its fairly easy if you just open the automation lane. Find the phrase your want, click a couple nodes in and raise it. Takes a couple seconds. I do this also with things such as reverb or effects. Such as i may want more reverb on a specific phrase. i usually have a bus just for certain effects such as reverb and send all my audio through it and control to my liking.