Sonar and warranty / bug fixes

I think my question got overlooked in that huge sticky, so here again for answering by cakewalk officials, please:

I still need to know the bug fix policy.

So, say, for example, just before my subscription ends, there would be a a feature rolled out that was announced long before and I'm eagerly awaiting. Now, a major bug in this new feature slipped through preventing the new feature to work at all. A hot fix will be announced, my subscription ends, the hot fix gets roled.

What about warranty here?
I paid with my subscription for this new feature, but it doesn't work until fixed.
I'm not entitled to the fix, as I'm no member anymore.

How is this handled please?

What about other bugs which get fixed along the way after my subscription has ended?
I'm happy to subscribe in order to get new features, refinements and such.
But afai understand, there have to be a warranty period, for the product as a whole, and for new features and patches in particular that get rolled out?

Please clarify.

Thank you

This can't be legal imho, so I'd have to leave as I can't support a business model which doesn't offer basic warranty for its products.

Can a cakewalk official please confirm that there will be no warranty at all? Or shed some light on the new warranty policies?

Yeah. if that occurs you should simply call us up and explain the situation. We'll do whatever we can to rectify an unfortunate circumstance like this, within reason.

yes, that has been said.

In the mentioned example above, what will I be supposed to? I am no more entitled to support as I'm opted out. Whome do I contact, and how? How long will it take to just roll out the already available fix to me. How will it be rolled out to me? Do I have to start a discussion every time there will be a fix after my subscription end for a bug I encountered myself some days before my subscription ends? Am I entitled to bug fixes when they get available. What will happen when the bug fix can't be separated from new features, which I'm not interested in buying by renewing my subscription. Am I entitled to a refund for defects that are automatically confirmed by an available bug fix which can't be separated from a new feature for whatever reason?

As tempting as this new product is, to be honest, I am concerned about the amount of work and time I have to put into getting my warranty rights?

I need an official statement please on how warranty / bug fixes / repairs to known software defects are handled.

Cakewalk?

How to contact Cakewalk directly http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2090582
They even take pre-Sales calls for questions like what has been posted here.

TabSel
yes, that has been said.

In the mentioned example above, what will I be supposed to? I am no more entitled to support as I'm opted out. Whome do I contact, and how? How long will it take to just roll out the already available fix to me. How will it be rolled out to me? Do I have to start a discussion every time there will be a fix after my subscription end for a bug I encountered myself some days before my subscription ends? Am I entitled to bug fixes when they get available. What will happen when the bug fix can't be separated from new features, which I'm not interested in buying by renewing my subscription. Am I entitled to a refund for defects that are automatically confirmed by an available bug fix which can't be separated from a new feature for whatever reason?

As tempting as this new product is, to be honest, I am concerned about the amount of work and time I have to put into getting my warranty rights?

I need an official statement please on how warranty / bug fixes / repairs to known software defects are handled.

Cakewalk?

In case you missed POST #5
 

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
Yeah. if that occurs you should simply call us up and explain the situation. We'll do whatever we can to rectify an unfortunate circumstance like this, within reason.

TabSel
yes, that has been said.

In the mentioned example above, what will I be supposed to? I am no more entitled to support as I'm opted out. Whome do I contact, and how? How long will it take to just roll out the already available fix to me. How will it be rolled out to me? Do I have to start a discussion every time there will be a fix after my subscription end for a bug I encountered myself some days before my subscription ends? Am I entitled to bug fixes when they get available. What will happen when the bug fix can't be separated from new features, which I'm not interested in buying by renewing my subscription. Am I entitled to a refund for defects that are automatically confirmed by an available bug fix which can't be separated from a new feature for whatever reason?

As tempting as this new product is, to be honest, I am concerned about the amount of work and time I have to put into getting my warranty rights?

I need an official statement please on how warranty / bug fixes / repairs to known software defects are handled.

Cakewalk?

All of these questions are sort of hypothetical. There is no real bug, no real fix, no real dates and times... So I can best answer by saying: Our phone lines will still work for non-members. We're not likely to hang up on customers that have chosen not to renew. That would be bad for everyone: You'd be mad at us and be less likely to renew in the future. We'll always hear you out. It will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis, and we'll do our very best to avoid the situation altogether. It will not be a "policy" because there are too many variables. Is there a workaround or some other solution? Is it fixed 6 months after your membership ended or 1? We'll need to take a bunch of things into consideration. In general, I wouldn't worry about it. If you get burned we'll always do our very best to relieve it, simply because we're friendly and understanding folks :). But our official statement is: If you're an active member, you'll get all current fixes and features for the product you're on. Hope this helps.

Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]

TabSel
yes, that has been said.

In the mentioned example above, what will I be supposed to? I am no more entitled to support as I'm opted out. Whome do I contact, and how? How long will it take to just roll out the already available fix to me. How will it be rolled out to me? Do I have to start a discussion every time there will be a fix after my subscription end for a bug I encountered myself some days before my subscription ends? Am I entitled to bug fixes when they get available. What will happen when the bug fix can't be separated from new features, which I'm not interested in buying by renewing my subscription. Am I entitled to a refund for defects that are automatically confirmed by an available bug fix which can't be separated from a new feature for whatever reason?

As tempting as this new product is, to be honest, I am concerned about the amount of work and time I have to put into getting my warranty rights?

I need an official statement please on how warranty / bug fixes / repairs to known software defects are handled.

Cakewalk?

All of these questions are sort of hypothetical. There is no real bug, no real fix, no real dates and times... So I can best answer by saying: Our phone lines will still work for non-members. We're not likely to hang up on customers that have chosen not to renew. That would be bad for everyone: You'd be mad at us and be less likely to renew in the future. We'll always hear you out. It will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis, and we'll do our very best to avoid the situation altogether. It will not be a "policy" because there are too many variables. Is there a workaround or some other solution? Is it fixed 6 months after your membership ended or 1? We'll need to take a bunch of things into consideration. In general, I wouldn't worry about it. If you get burned we'll always do our very best to relieve it, simply because we're friendly and understanding folks :). But our official statement is: If you're an active member, you'll get all current fixes and features for the product you're on. Hope this helps.

d

Ok, thanks for that.

I'm sorry to say but I guess I have to first wait and see how it is put to practice publicly for quite some time, before I might get in.

Thanks

I was lurking by on my way to post an issues. The same issues I have asked for help on to cakewalk (with NO reply) for a few days now.
 
IMO
Looks to me that my X3e pro is now obsolete and still bug infested and Cakewalk has moved on AGAIN.
Yes, I got it a few months ago for $150.00 a great deal for something that works... NOT!
This was a Brilliant marketing ploy, to inflate the sales numbers and flood the market selling people that had no clue just how BAD X3 was! And Now X3 is being advertised as BEST most used DAW out there because of the sales numbers!
 
And now to something completely different.... you can buy this NEW version but this time if you want the bugs fixed you have to keep paying us for what you bought that was broken in the first place... the problem with this is that programmers like their jobs and it's just to easy to put a bad line of code within the millions of lines of code to keep Sonar bug happy! Who's goanna know? 
 
It's like buying a car that has a short in the electrical system that keeps blowing your headlights when you start the car and you have to pay for new headlights just to drive at night. (exactly!) But in the real world the government tell the manufacture of the car to FIX IT for free! and Fine them and if people where killed....
 
Well no one will die from a software accident... well that's not true, but maybe in a DAW accident people will live.
But at some point the right person will come along and get ALL software publishers to pay up for deceptive business practices....
 
Cakewalk employees need there jobs just like the rest of and that's why this happens....
But if they had any integrity they would at the lease keep debugging X3 until it works!
AND find a BETTER sales model!  IMO

Andrasin
the problem with this is that programmers like their jobs and it's just to easy to put a bad line of code within the millions of lines of code to keep Sonar bug happy! Who's goanna know? 

That would be rather sinister. In reality, we take a lot of pride in our products and want them to be the very best they can be. We're not evil and have been in business with a rather good reputation for nearly 30 years. 
 
It sounds like you're having some problems in X3. It is generally considered very stable by the vast majority of users (in fact we got extremely good customer satisfaction results in our most recent survey). Sorry you're having a rough experience. I recommend you contact our support department directly to discuss your issues: http://forum.cakewalk.com...ly-m2090582.aspx 

Cool. Our aim will be to release great new stuff frequently, demonstrate our product and membership's value, and ultimately convince you that you want to be on board. But I totally understand the decision to watch from the sidelines for now. Thanks for the feedback.

TabSel
Btw, with this new "concentrate on one feature/content addition at a time from concept to delivery" approach possible now, will there be things like public customer feature request ratings for feature priorities which might get concentrated on"? ;)

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Features-Ideas-f76.aspx
 
We turned on the voting features in here 
 
Also, check out http://scratchpad.cakewalk.com/Ideas/Popular
 
I think we would all like a SONAR page like that. 

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

Andrasin
 
...
 
AND find a BETTER sales model!  IMO

I think you'll find everything we've been communicating over the past few days is with that last sentiment in mind. We're changing the way we sell, develop and support our software so that this is not a conversation to be had anymore.

that's fine by me but are they going to finish debugging X3?
 
I do kind of see what you guys at cakewalk want to do... and it could be cool, BUT the price to get in (buy a new version and start over)... install, find bugs, report bugs, repeat is NOT the answer.
I don't want to be a FREE bata tester.
Make it worth wile with a lower "Buy in". Every time I have a bug it SHUTS me down! I would rather spend my cash on cool things that will work "in and with" my DAW then have to keep replacing my DAW as it looks now... every 6 months.
 
you want to know what we think , don't shut us down for putting in 2 cents! 
 

 

TabSel
This can't be legal imho, so I'd have to leave as I can't support a business model which doesn't offer basic warranty for its products.

 
This is now either the third or fourth time I have answered your question about a customer's legal rights and software. If you don't believe me, do some research and you will find what I told you is true: The End User License Agreement is an agreement between you and the software company. You agree to it when you install software. I linked to an Apple page for a typical EULA. I also mentioned that EULAs can be subject to local laws that limit certain elements of the EULA.
 
I stuck with the facts, but what I did not say is my opinion that Cakewalk has in the past, so presumably will in the future, go the extra mile to insure customer satisfaction within reasonable limits.
 
I'll give you an example from another era. When Alesis was its own company it had a 90-day warranty on hardware. After that, repairs cost money and the customer paid shipping both ways - in theory. Several years into the company's existence, they had NEVER charged for a repair and paid shipping back to the customer. I said that I thought that was a strong selling point and why didn't they say they essentially gave a lifetime warranty? The answer was they didn't want people to take advantage of it. 
 
Some companies care about their customers and look at individual situations on a case-by-case basis. Cakewalk has proven itself to be a highly responsive company - compare the new features to forum posts from the past year. Now they're engineering a way to do business so they can be even more responsive. I see a pattern here.
 
 
 
 

Advice here. When something is new to you, it's generally best not to jump to conclusions. You have plenty of valid answers and repeating your opinions or asking the same Q several times by placing it in irrelevant scenarios I'm afraid is hardly likely to change them.

Cheers...