drjee
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 13:18:34
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
cityrat
Keith Albright [Cakewalk]
As Noel said, the .crq request file generated is per machine. But once you receive the .dat file you can archive that for the machine and reinstall at any point and reimport that file. You own it.
Just like any other product key, it's good to back that up. We thought a lot about your experience so changing the pc's hardware shouldn't invalidate your setup.
That's extremely helpful info - does the dat file work if you change hardware on the computer? For instance if a hard-drive dies etc?
Yes it does, its not hardware dependent.
that's interesting. If it is not hardware-dependent why is it necessray to activate serarately on each machine? Why is it not possible to use that same file on another computer? If it is possible, I am fine with the new system, because that means that once I downloaded everything and made a backup of the authorization file I depend no more on the Cakewalk servers. Please, clarify. Cheers, drjee
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vintagevibe
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 13:21:06
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Anderton
Ric4001
But access to the activation servers is a legitimate concern.
That's the direction all software is going.
Does anyone remember Opcode Vision? It was one of the most popular midi sequencers in the early days of sequencers. It also required a challenge-response type of activation to install. Gibson bought Opcode and shut down the Opcode Vision development.
I do research. I researched what happened with Opcode thoroughly before joining Gibson and talked with both Chris Halaby (Opcode's president) and Henry to get their sides of the story. They matched up perfectly. Chris emphasized he had no ill will toward Henry, and wished me success with Gibson.
Short form: Opcode was failing at the time of the acquisition. Most of the key developers had already left to go to Apple or another company. Gibson hoped to be able to resurrect the company, but around that time, Apple was about to introduce OS X and the people who could have made the transition were no longer at Opcode. The Windows version never got traction. At that time Gibson did not have the resources to create an entire software development team from scratch. Both Chris and Henry described the setup as one that was "doomed to fail."
If you've been following Cakewalk's progress since 2013, the scenario has played out very differently this time. As to all the people who said Cakewalk wouldn't last a year after being acquired by Gibson, Cakewalk is still here and doing much better than it was prior to the acquisition.
(And just FYI, over 80% of all acquisitions fail. I'm glad Cakewalk is in the 20% category.)
Very interesting and enlightening. Do you know the inside scoop about Tascam and Gigastudio?
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stevec
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 16:44:52
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SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 18:12:06
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drjee
that's interesting. If it is not hardware-dependent why is it necessray to activate serarately on each machine? Why is it not possible to use that same file on another computer? If it is possible, I am fine with the new system, because that means that once I downloaded everything and made a backup of the authorization file I depend no more on the Cakewalk servers. Please, clarify.
Cheers, drjee
Its not hardware dependent as in you can change hardware components in your system. But it is system dependent as in the same file won't work on a physically different computer. ie. You can back it up for use on the same computer but not on a physically different one. If its different you must go through our server at least once. There is no way around that.
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drjee
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 18:21:16
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cityrat
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 20:47:13
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
drjee
that's interesting. If it is not hardware-dependent why is it necessray to activate serarately on each machine? Why is it not possible to use that same file on another computer? If it is possible, I am fine with the new system, because that means that once I downloaded everything and made a backup of the authorization file I depend no more on the Cakewalk servers. Please, clarify.
Cheers, drjee
Its not hardware dependent as in you can change hardware components in your system. But it is system dependent as in the same file won't work on a physically different computer. ie. You can back it up for use on the same computer but not on a physically different one. If its different you must go through our server at least once. There is no way around that.
Thanks. To me that's reasonable. Sounds a lot like Windows - and "computer" usually means MB /Chip generated machine ID, or it's OS id dependent. It has to be tied to SOMETHING right? Either way it satisfys my "restore from backup emergency w/o reactivation" scenario. Which in reality I will probably just install C3 and forget about it. Anyway it sounds like I certainly wont get stuck (and I HAVE been stuck) having to beg a reset license after my system went down and took the last of my two licenses I get allotted.
Sonar Platinum | Windows 7 64 bit SP1 | Intel i5 3570 3.4GHz | 8GB RAM | Gigabyte GA-B75-D3H | OCZ SSD | RME 9632
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Anderton
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/18 20:54:33
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vintagevibe
Very interesting and enlightening. Do you know the inside scoop about Tascam and Gigastudio?
Yes, I do. I had a peripheral role in the TASCAM acquisition and found out the full story. The technology ended up with Garritan. I asked Gary Garritan if he planned to resurrect GigaStudio, and he basically gave me the same reasons for not doing that as the reasons TASCAM gave for why they couldn't make a go of it.
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nilshahn
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 01:53:39
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Hi.
I have big problems with challenge/response. Ableton allows three activations before you have to contact tech support or write a wordy explanation via email why you changed your hardware configuration, upgraded your cpu or inserted more ram.
AAS allows three activations in 90 days for any of their products before you have to contact tech support.
Besides making music, one of my hobbies is upgrading/changing/destroying my system, so I regularly have to reinstall often. How many activations are possible before I have to apologize for taking valuable tech support time?
Thanks in advance.
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BRuys
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 02:49:00
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Anderton
vintagevibe
Very interesting and enlightening. Do you know the inside scoop about Tascam and Gigastudio?
Yes, I do. I had a peripheral role in the TASCAM acquisition and found out the full story. The technology ended up with Garritan. I asked Gary Garritan if he planned to resurrect GigaStudio, and he basically gave me the same reasons for not doing that as the reasons TASCAM gave for why they couldn't make a go of it.
Remember too that Gigastudio was huge when we all had limited RAM in our 32-bit machines and streaming from disk was the only way to play back large sample sets. Giga was never going to survive the 64-bit desktop revolution, so its days were always numbered, IMHO.
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mudgel
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 02:54:12
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Cakewalk doesn't predetermine an amount of activations but if the frequency should be suspect then they have a means to ask for an explanation. They have said they are tightening up but for legit users there shouldn't be a problem. But again you only have to do it once per machine. So go trash every installation as many times as you like. You can activate it offline and have all the details and files on each of your own PCs where you have Sonar installed. Command Centre asks for a default folder for placing installation files. c:\Program Data\Cakewalk\Downloads if I remember correctly.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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nilshahn
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 03:03:08
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mudgel
Cakewalk doesn't predetermine an amount of activations but if the frequency should be suspect then they have a means to ask for an explanation. They have said they are tightening up but for legit users there shouldn't be a problem. But again you only have to do it once per machine. So go trash every installation as many times as you like. You can activate it offline and have all the details and files on each of your own PCs where you have Sonar installed. Command Centre asks for a default folder for placing installation files. c:\Program Data\Cakewalk\Downloads if I remember correctly.
I completely understand the necessities and reasons for protecting their product from piracy and I can live with this. And yes, they made it as easy as possible. But again, it happend twice for me with other companies, so it´s better to ask before so I can protect myself from becoming upset. I recently did not get upset because of this synth company that went out of business because they didn´t have c/r and I will be able to use their fantastic piece of software a few more years. And I will think twice about getting upset because I would pay $149 for financially supporting a system which would possibly upset me.
post edited by nilshahn - 2015/01/19 03:12:30
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BRuys
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 03:55:50
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Here's why I support the challenge/response system: I've been a legit customer since running CW on Windows 3.1 and have owned every version since for well over 20 years now. However, now things have changed - If you can install Sonar, then potentially you will be getting all the future updates and enhancements. So this means CW MUST protect itself from freeloaders, or they are going to have free access to a whole lot of extra intellectual property as updates that would have been previously included in new versions. Given that the game has changed, I see the need to step up the level of effort required to prevent the freeloaders from getting their hands on the software for free.
So, in reality, if you really want CW to keep making software that gives us all a platform for the future, you should give them your support and accept the new paradigm.
After all, if you got your way, the software would be easy to distribute to share networks with just a text file containing a password and registration code and the chance of CW going bust would surely be higher. So even though in your eyes you'd be safer because if CW was no more, you could re-install without their servers, it would be a very short-sighted view of the world, and ultimately pretty darn selfish.
I know someone is going to chime in now and say that hackers will just subvert the copy protection, but that is no reason CW shouldn't make their products a harder target for illegitimate users.
Ultimately, we will deal with the future should the worst ever happen. In the mean time, let's get our heads out of this fruitless distraction and get back to making music!
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mudgel
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 04:16:39
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hey Bill, long time no see. Are you back for the new Sonar or just visiting? or have you always been here and I missed you
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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BRuys
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 04:27:39
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Hey Mike, my old account on this forum from 2004 somehow got totally screwed up and I was not able to use it when we moved to SSO. So I've been lurking here for ages. I finally found an old account I had somehow created a few years ago and used that to merge with my CW store account to get a sign-on to this forum. I wanted to make sure I was ready to go when the new Sonar dropped.
I've been on this train for well over 20 years now, wasn't ever going to miss out on Platinum!
Nice to be missed, my Aussie brother!
Bill.
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azslow3
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2015/01/19 05:20:43
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BRuys
I know someone is going to chime in now and say that hackers will just subvert the copy protection, but that is no reason CW shouldn't make their products a harder target for illegitimate users.
Just several statements from me, Russian, bad musician, "old school" programmer: - in case such protection was introduced back in X1, you could not read my post because I had no SONAR. In fact SONAR was the first program in which I have invested more than $50, the full trust to customers was the deal point for me. I have changed my mind since than and I have paid quite some money for copy protected programs. While I am happy with some of them (Celemony, IK), I am not with other (XLN). Because in attempt to protect themselves they think of me as about thief. In many cases it is more disturbing than in other, but the feeling is there all the time.
- I have written some protections as well as... Good protection required quite some investment. Smallest mistake and you are vulnerable. So, company (== customers) pay money for something which make no sense for users and any day can be obsoleted (in many cases this day comes much early than you can think). For investment/result ratio check DVD, WEP, early PayTV...
- just to make it clear... I have not used SoftICE this century
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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avdb
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2017/11/24 09:15:10
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Very much an active topic again I would think!
As a long time Cakewalk user who has paid significant amounts to the company over the years, I have to say that I am worried now
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mudgel
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Re: Please Remove the Challende/Response Activation (for users who pay upfront)
2017/11/24 14:12:45
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☼ Best Answerby Karyn 2017/11/24 14:15:36
Read the sticky about activation.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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