mettelus
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 17:26:31
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On paper, I can agree with the OP, since many of the new features do not carry the "WOW" impact of X3. An AS overhaul would have brought a "FINALLY!" from many, as would other underlying core functionality making a jump toward user expectations. My biggest concern with the initial release of the new SONAR is bugs that are retro-active, and the only thread I caught one of these in was the Melodyne issue (seeming to affect X3 as well).
I am a massive fan of Cakewalk as a company, have only used SONAR, and definitely not interested in learning another DAW; but I also have a sarcastic streak a mile wide with things at times as well. Something related to the OP was an off-the-cuff comment I made to a friend about the new Membership setup... "If this had come at the tail end of X2a it would have flown like a lead balloon... they are banking on the success of X3 here, but the features I am seeing pale in comparison to what was on the plate when X3 arrived."
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Drone7 
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 17:39:54
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Anderton
Initial installation.
Thanks Craig; Phew! Just to let you know, and to put my cards face-up on the table (as i always do), I got rid of my last DAW, and refuse to work with the current one i own, so i'm ready to go again; however, i'm sitting on the fence at the moment with a pair of binoculars, looking left&right... left&right... left&right. New Sonar on one side of the fence, and Studio One v3 imminent. I could easily buy both, money is not really the issue, but i don't see the point in owning 2 DAWs, and although Sonar Professional has got the credentials and is certainly a good deal, apparently there's a few things going on at Presonus; but as it stands now, the current version of the Studio One equivalent to Sonar Professional does not include Melodyne (only the trial version) or a CD burning function, so currently Sonar has it over Studio One in the value for money stakes, but, i saw this info posted 7 weeks ago from the Studio One developers if anyone cares to read, just so you can understand my position... "Rick Naqvi from Presonus decided to post this: I can fully understand people wondering about what is going on with Version 3. Yes, we have definitely been working on it, and would have loved to release something this year (Dec 2014), but we felt it was more important to put out a release that was really substantial while still trying to preserve the spirit and workflow of what makes StudioOne what it is. We may be rather quiet, but please know we are listening. Our goals for Version 3 will be to focus on music production enhancements, sound quality and stability. No, I can't say a date. But I can definitely say that our team is 100% focused on taking it up a HUGE NOTCH and redefining the VALUE PROPOSITION of StudioOne. And as you know, when V3 finally ships, we will continue to put out updates that add features as we have always done with Versions 1 and 2 - not just bug fixes. We TRULY appreciate the loyalty and support from our customers who have allowed Studio One to rise so quickly in popularity in just a few short years. WE WILL NOT LET YOU DOWN."
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Anderton
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 17:47:05
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Drone7
...but i don't see the point in owning 2 DAWs
Actually, I can. Studio One Pro's "mastering page" is great for CD assembly, I prefer it to Sony's CD Architect. I use SONAR for multitracking/song creation/DAW work but when it's time to assemble a CD, I use Studio One Pro. I know the guys at PreSonus well, and Rick Naqvi is a very good friend as well as a great guy who's passionate about everything he does. I have no doubt PreSonus is working on cool stuff. However, I also know that Cakewalk is working on cool stuff 
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InstrEd
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 17:50:28
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If Presonus adds staff view now that they own Notion I'd would be extremely tempted to get it.
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Drone7
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 19:57:31
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Anderton
Actually, I can. Studio One Pro's "mastering page" is great for CD assembly, I prefer it to Sony's CD Architect. I use SONAR for multitracking/song creation/DAW work but when it's time to assemble a CD, I use Studio One Pro.
I know the guys at PreSonus well, and Rick Naqvi is a very good friend as well as a great guy who's passionate about everything he does. I have no doubt PreSonus is working on cool stuff. However, I also know that Cakewalk is working on cool stuff
Cakewalk's Sonar is self-evident, it's a giant among giants, but the quandary i face in this situation is akin to choosing between a BMW or a Mercedes Benz; i'm sure some would agree that this would be a difficult choice. I already own Steinberg's Wavelab Elements 8, so the CD Burning part will not play the biggest factor in my decision-making. But, seeing that Rick Naqvi said this... "But I can definitely say that our team is 100% focused on taking it up a HUGE NOTCH and redefining the VALUE PROPOSITION of StudioOne." Well, i would be silly not to wait and see if somethings gonna rock the show, simultaneously hoping that Rick's "Value proposition" statement might mean that the middle-grade version of Studio One will this time maybe include Melodyne, and not just the trial version. I must say though that the Studio One developers will certainly have to pull a very big rabbit out of the hat to persuade me away from buying Sonar professional.
post edited by Drone7 - 2015/01/20 20:03:33
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Anderton
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 20:28:14
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I think that at least up until now (I do know some improvements being made to SOP 3, but of course will not talk about them out of respect for both PreSonus and Cakewalk) there has been a different philosophy behind the two programs. SOP is designed to target a specific audience with a program that is optimized precisely for what they need, while SONAR is designed to cover as many different project types as possible. Both are valid models. One of the reasons I use SONAR is precisely because I do so many different types of projects, so it can handle anything I throw at it. Before SONAR came along, I had to be proficient in multiple programs to do what I needed.
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Drone7
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/20 21:03:48
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Anderton
SOP is designed to target a specific audience with a program that is optimized precisely for what they need.
And yet i'm hoping they've let that mentality go and have had a change-of-mind for the development of Version 3. They would probably be aware that if they want to increase sales, the only way is to take the Cakewalk approach, seeing that the S1 developers already have a very solid foundation, but i do hope they realize that all they need now is to up the ante in the plugin stakes, both quality and quantity, and get the midi editing sorted, plus make a better effort to supply some more tasty high-caliber sounds and include an extra softsynth. Anyhow, Sonar has definitely got the edge at this point in time IMO, but with version 3 of S1 imminent, i'd be silly not to hang-around a bit to wait and see whats-up.
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yevster
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 01:13:59
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I've trash-talked Sonar quite a bit for stability issues, but S1 is way worse. First, projects take forever to load, as it seems to load every plugin (and every sampleset within each plugin) one at a time. Second, its autosave is modal, so while your project is being saved, you have absolutely no control over your DAW. If it's playing a project, it will keep playing, and you can't stop it. Third, and this is the worst one: it is the worst-performing, most unstable DAW I've ever used. Sometimes it gets into a state where it will no longer allow me to add effects to the project (Pro version). And the audio engine starts to sputter under far less load than it would take a Sonar project or a Cubase project, even before all the performance improvements in Cubase 8. And what really bites is that after two years worth of fixes and incremental updates, these issues still have not been addressed.
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Drone7
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 08:37:05
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Thankyou for mentioning all this; handy to know, since i place a big emphasis on these types of things. Glad to know Sonar doesn't suffer from these ills.
If Presonus don't fix these problems for ver3, then as far as i'm concerned they're not worth my money or attention. Let's see if they have fixed all of these issues in the next version. Nick from Presonus did make a special mention that stability is one of their major aims for the next version. Time will tell, but not long to go now before the next major update of Studio One.
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declan
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 10:40:01
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yevster
I've trash-talked Sonar quite a bit for stability issues, but S1 is way worse. First, projects take forever to load, as it seems to load every plugin (and every sampleset within each plugin) one at a time. Second, its autosave is modal, so while your project is being saved, you have absolutely no control over your DAW. If it's playing a project, it will keep playing, and you can't stop it. Third, and this is the worst one: it is the worst-performing, most unstable DAW I've ever used. Sometimes it gets into a state where it will no longer allow me to add effects to the project (Pro version). And the audio engine starts to sputter under far less load than it would take a Sonar project or a Cubase project, even before all the performance improvements in Cubase 8. And what really bites is that after two years worth of fixes and incremental updates, these issues still have not been addressed.
Wow, I read this post twice and I don't really understand it. I've heard great things about Cubase 8 though so I guess all is well.
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GregGraves
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 12:07:01
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I've been using Twelve Tone Cakewalk versions since 1987. In The Past, updates occurred as a single event, PA7 to PA8, to PA8.5, to X1 .... Following these events, sad to say, some things weren't there anymore, or were there but were expected to be someplace else. Recently V-vocal and Lexicon Pantheon (I think) are examples. Also, the work-flow was different and required studying the [currently] 1700 page User's Guide and buying a Garrigus' tome. So anytime I moved from one version to the next, it was often with trepidation, care, and paranoia.
In the new "model" updates are going to occur "fluidly". Does that mean I turn my computer off, wake up in the morning, and things that used to work don't work, are gone, or don't work in the same way they did last night? That scares me.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 12:13:39
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yevster
I've trash-talked Sonar quite a bit for stability issues, but S1 is way worse. First, projects take forever to load, as it seems to load every plugin (and every sampleset within each plugin) one at a time. Second, its autosave is modal, so while your project is being saved, you have absolutely no control over your DAW. If it's playing a project, it will keep playing, and you can't stop it. Third, and this is the worst one: it is the worst-performing, most unstable DAW I've ever used. Sometimes it gets into a state where it will no longer allow me to add effects to the project (Pro version). And the audio engine starts to sputter under far less load than it would take a Sonar project or a Cubase project, even before all the performance improvements in Cubase 8. And what really bites is that after two years worth of fixes and incremental updates, these issues still have not been addressed.
weird, that's almost the polar opposite of my own s1 experience
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yevster
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 14:10:59
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I know, I'm a bug magnet on any DAW other than Cubase. :)
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yevster
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 14:10:59
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I know, I'm a bug magnet on any DAW other than Cubase. :)
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GregGraves
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 14:35:18
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yevster
I've trash-talked Sonar quite a bit for stability issues ... projects take forever to load ... its autosave is modal no control over your DAW ... most unstable DAW I've ever used. Sometimes it gets into a state where it will no longer allow me to add effects to the project (Pro version). And the audio engine starts to sputter under far less load than it would take a Sonar project or a Cubase project, even before all the performance improvements in Cubase 8. And what really bites is that after two years worth of fixes and incremental updates, these issues still have not been addressed.
Before I moved to 64 bit mode and upgraded my RAM to 12 gb, I used to run into the problems (well, some of them) you describe. I don't use Autosave, I save manually, and I save to "versions", as in Poopyhead v01.cwp, Poopyhead v02.cwp ... because I don't trust the computer to be able to tell when I really have something to save, or when I have totally screwed up everything (i.e., autopunch was on and I just destroyed the vocal tracks). If I don't remember to Save judiciously, then it is MY fault; however, if the computer overwrites something not intended, it is a distinct possibility that I will smash monitors and generally flip out and become a serial killer. Previously, there was a limit to the number of effects ... well actually, I could add more but they didn't work, and as the computer tried to workaround by moving data to Virtual Memory (aka, the hard drive), Sonar would click, pop, stutter, become unusable, and tend to lock-up/crash. The workaround was to Freeze a bunch of the tracks. As far as "take forever to load", 60 some tracks of 24 bit 48kHz audio is a LOT of MBytes that has to be stuffed into memory ... and organized for recording/playback. That will take some "time" no matter what DAW you are using unless the DAW is leaving the data on the harddrive ... which seems dumb. Now, in my new expanded RAM world, although I've never used more than 4.5GB RAM in any Project so far, I don't have any of those problems. Those extra 0.7GB of RAM seem the indispensable tidbits. Does S3 crash now and then? Uh, yeah. It amazes me that it works at all !!! That said, it seems the crashes I experience (not very often mind you) are somehow related to those times I get all excited and start clicking too many things while too many things are going on. Or maybe its instigated when rude Kaspersky decided to do a RootKit scan in the middle of a session (and my fault because I didn't bypass Kaspersky load on startup). Microsoft Word 2007 crashes, so does IE10 (a lot!!!!). Computer software crashes.
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Drone7
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Re: Were we spoiled with the X3 release?
2015/01/21 16:46:10
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From my own experience with my friends copy of S1 on his computer (i7 16gig ram), the things yevster said are actually very true; the exact same problems were occurring with my friends situation using that DAW.
If yevster were to tell us his system specs, that might add weight to his argument.
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