annifarkle
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benjaminfrog
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 16:58:43
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Have you considered using a sample rate lower than 96k?
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 17:21:45
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benjaminfrog
Have you considered using a sample rate lower than 96k?
Yes. It automatically gets kicked back up to 96K
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MarioD
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 17:32:29
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annifarkle
benjaminfrog
Have you considered using a sample rate lower than 96k?
Yes. It automatically gets kicked back up to 96K
Was this on an old project? Have you tried to record a new project at 44.1K?
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 17:33:48
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MarioD
annifarkle
benjaminfrog
Have you considered using a sample rate lower than 96k?
Yes. It automatically gets kicked back up to 96K
Was this on an old project?
Have you tried to record a new project at 44.1K?
No I haven't I will try it. I'll let you know what happens.
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brundlefly
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 17:42:25
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2015/03/16 18:05:14
i concur on lowering your sample rate to 48kHz, though that won't be possible for projects that already have recorded audio in them at the higher rate. Going back and forth can be a pain, so if you have a lot of projects already done at 96k, you might want to stick with that. If and when the time comes that you want to change it, you'll probably need to change the rate in both the interface control panel (with SONAR shut down) and then in SONAR's audio preferences (default rate for new projects).
In any case, both your ASIO latency and disk I/O buffers seem exceptionally high unless your projects are really big. My Core 2 Duo laptop runs most projects quite well with the ASIO buffer at 960, and disk Playback buffer at 512kB. And the Input buffer can be a lot lower, like 128kB, if you're only ever recording 2-4 inputs.
But for issues that suddenly crop up with no config changes, especially if it's a laptop, I'd look for drivers being enabled that trash your DPC latency (e.g. wireless networking) or CPU performance being throttled down; whenever possible, laptops should always be plugged in with Power Management set to High Performance.
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:10:33
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brundlefly
i concur on lowering your sample rate to 48kHz, though that won't be possible for projects that already have recorded audio in them at the higher rate. Going back and forth can be a pain, so if you have a lot of projects already done at 96k, you might want to stick with that. If and when the time comes that you want to change it, you'll probably need to change the rate in both the interface control panel (with SONAR shut down) and then in SONAR's audio preferences (default rate for new projects).
I opened an old project I recorded at 44K and it is stable. So if I erase all the audio from a project can I then reset the the sample rate to 44K? Most of my older projects thankfully are recorded at 44K.
In any case, both your ASIO latency and disk I/O buffers seem exceptionally high unless your projects are really big. My Core 2 Duo laptop runs most projects quite well with the ASIO buffer at 960, and disk Playback buffer at 512kB. And the Input buffer can be a lot lower, like 128kB, if you're only ever recording 2-4 inputs.
I raised them because I kept getting a message from Melodyne that my Buffer size was too low. I've changed them back and We'll see what happens.
But for issues that suddenly crop up with no config changes, especially if it's a laptop, I'd look for drivers being enabled that trash your DPC latency (e.g. wireless networking) or CPU performance being throttled down; whenever possible, laptops should always be plugged in with Power Management set to High Performance.
If recording at 44K doesn't permanently solve it then I will look at that next. BTW I'm on a desktop not a laptop.
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:12:00
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Thanks for all the help Guy  s!
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mettelus
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:12:07
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Good drivers will allow SONAR to shift sample rate to conform to the project, so that is why it keeps jumping back up.
Bfly's point about "excessively high" is a good one, since extreme values in either direction can cause pops/crackles.
The only other things that stuck out is 1) can you lower the latency from 40ms in the FIREBOX UI? and 2) you do not have "Use ASIO Reported Latency checked. I am not sure if that checkbox is forcing the FIREBOX to a higher value on you (never tried that myself, but seems unlikely). The "issue" is the interface is sending SONAR an offset of 8364, but you are telling SONAR to use 0.
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mettelus
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:16:52
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FWIW, unless you see (hear) an actual issue with Melodyne, blow off that message. There was a post long ago that it was a workaround during beta testing for an issue that has since been fixed. Adjust buffers based on performance.
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:38:00
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mettelus
Good drivers will allow SONAR to shift sample rate to conform to the project, so that is why it keeps jumping back up.
Bfly's point about "excessively high" is a good one, since extreme values in either direction can cause pops/crackles.
The only other things that stuck out is 1) can you lower the latency from 40ms in the FIREBOX UI? and 2) you do not have "Use ASIO Reported Latency checked. I am not sure if that checkbox is forcing the FIREBOX to a higher value on you (never tried that myself, but seems unlikely). The "issue" is the interface is sending SONAR an offset of 8364, but you are telling SONAR to use 0.
I can lower the latency. The only reason I had it so high in the picture was that it was the last setting I tried in order to fix the problem. I tried both checking and unchecking the use reported latency and it didn't seem to make any difference. The lower smaple rate though seems to have fixed the issue. Again thank you for everyone's replies.
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brundlefly
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 18:52:38
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mettelus
2) you do not have "Use ASIO Reported Latency" checked.
Good catch. That should definitely be enabled, especially when running a large ASIO buffer. It won't affect anything that happens in real time, but it ensures that all of the input latency is compensated after the fact by sliding the recorded audio earlier so that it's laid down where it would been if there were no latency at all. Without that, any recorded audio is going to sound terribly late on playback. To really get record latency compensation dialed in, you should check the actual round-trip time using the free CEntrance ASIO latency tester (Google it), and enter the difference between what it reports and what SONAR reports for Total Round Trip Latency (RTL) as the Manual Offset in samples. i.e. Manual Offset = CEntrance-Measured RTL - SONAR-Reported RTL. Usually this will be a positive number of 10-50 samples - not hugely important or noticeble most of the time, but nice to know it's exactly right.
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bitman
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/16 22:01:45
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Turn off your WiFi (switch or key combo) maybe. Usually problematic to a degree.
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 01:29:13
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brundlefly
mettelus
2) you do not have "Use ASIO Reported Latency" checked.
Good catch. That should definitely be enabled, especially when running a large ASIO buffer. It won't affect anything that happens in real time, but it ensures that all of the input latency is compensated after the fact by sliding the recorded audio earlier so that it's laid down where it would been if there were no latency at all. Without that, any recorded audio is going to sound terribly late on playback.
To really get record latency compensation dialed in, you should check the actual round-trip time using the free CEntrance ASIO latency tester (Google it), and enter the difference between what it reports and what SONAR reports for Total Round Trip Latency (RTL) as the Manual Offset in samples. i.e. Manual Offset = CEntrance-Measured RTL - SONAR-Reported RTL. Usually this will be a positive number of 10-50 samples - not hugely important or noticeble most of the time, but nice to know it's exactly right.
On the test the result was: 832 samples / 17.33 ms Sonar reported 726 latency a difference of 106, quite a bit more than 10-50. Is that a problem?
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brundlefly
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 03:05:55
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Not really a problem, but definitely on the high side. Usually the delta is mostly due to unreported D/A/D converter latency which is on the order of .5ms each way. Added hardware buffering for USB interfaces can add to that, but a well-written driver should at least estimate the extra latency, and report that to the host. But it doesn't really matter what the number is. So long as it's consistent at all buffer sizes - as it should be - you can just enter that 106-sample difference as the Manual Offset and everything will be good.
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tbosco
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 05:48:40
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I was having a similar issue and in another thread I read a suggestion to delete or rename the Sonar "AUD.INI" file. I renamed mine to oldAud.ini. When you start Sonar again, it will create a new one. This made a huge improvement on my machine, although I don't really know why.
lol
You find the file under Drive:>Users/Username/App Data/ Roaming/Cakewalk/Sonar Platinum
Worth a try. Good luck.
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TremoJem
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 06:46:13
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What is the path for the "AUD.INI" file?
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mettelus
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 07:37:21
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As Tony mentioned, it defaults to "C:\Users\[Your Username]\AppData\Roaming\Cakewalk\SONAR Platinum"
Rather than blindly deleting that file, it is better to rename it to something else (AUD.bak or such) just in case you need to put it back. There have been a few instances where people reported the new one was worse, but is rare.
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Kylotan
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 07:38:01
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Have you installed any new software recently?
Is the project bigger than usual? 4GB is arguably too little memory for a 64bit system.
Have you looked in Task Manager to see if there are other processes that are competing for CPU use?
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hockeyjx
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 07:50:02
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Agree completely with Kylotan on the amount of memory you have. 4GB is woefully inadequate for a modern-day DAW. Even 8GB would be just ok. I would disable any network/wifi connection and A/V temporarily to check, and renaming the AUD.INI and letting the system generate a new one as has been mentioned. Good luck!
post edited by hockeyjx - 2015/03/17 15:57:52
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Cactus Music
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 11:38:12
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This seems straight forward to me. The computer specs are definitely outdated and certainly below what is needed for hi sample rates, high track counts and any fancy processing needed if using a bunch of plug ins. You should have no problems if you optimize your system and run at 44.1 or 48. Also run Latency Mon which like the loop back test, I think is mandatory for setting up a DAW. http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon You can also run DPCLAT test on Windows 7, won't work on W8. I like it because it's more visual but it doesn't tell you why like the resplendent test does. http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml Also that offset equals issues with your tracks not lining up perfectly. Myself I would add the manual offset and get it closer. We've all been messing around with this and I think it's critical for syncing to be as close as possible for good recordings. Especially if you are using audio a lot for things like bass. Midi is quantized so doesn't matter. http://forum.cakewalk.com/Lets-all-TEST-our-Interface-driver-for-offset-m3178396.aspx
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brundlefly
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 13:29:29
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Cactus Music
Midi is quantized so doesn't matter.
Just a point of clarification: It's not quantizing that makes record latency correction unnecessary for MIDI, it's that neither MIDI input nor soft-synth rendering are subject to audio input/record latency, and MIDI input latency is fixed at a relatively insignificant 2-3ms.
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 14:47:22
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Thank you to everyone. There's a ton of great information here that should help anyone with latency issues. I know that I'm bookmarking it in case anything else comes up around the issue for me. For now I seem to be in great shape with just dialing back the sample rate to 48K. Everything is stable. The project I was working on was the only one that i had at the higher rate. I was planning on re-recording the 3 audio tracks anyway, so I deleted them and I was able to reset the sample rate to 48K. Everything is working smooth as silk now. I'm going to see if I can upgrade the memory in my computer. As usual it's always a question of cost.
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brundlefly
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 16:03:05
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Cool. Go make music!
Depending on its vintage and design, your motherboard may not be able to accommodate more RAM. But I wouldn't worry about it. My old workhorse desktop runs great on 4GB. Extra RAM mainly helps with loading lots of heavyweight plugins. I haven't yet built a project that runs into problems. Upgrading to a quad processor would probably yield a much more noticeable performance improvement. Should be piles of used quad machines out there that you can pick up for a song (pun intended).
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annifarkle
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Re: Help with Latency Issues
2015/03/17 17:27:35
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brundlefly
Cool. Go make music!
Depending on its vintage and design, your motherboard may not be able to accommodate more RAM. But I wouldn't worry about it. My old workhorse desktop runs great on 4GB. Extra RAM mainly helps with loading lots of heavyweight plugins. I haven't yet built a project that runs into problems. Upgrading to a quad processor would probably yield a much more noticeable performance improvement. Should be piles of used quad machines out there that you can pick up for a song (pun intended).
Good to know. I haven't run into problems yet but when I do I will certainly look into the used ones. Thanks again!
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