ShellstaX
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RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (Chad)
It appears, with Rapture Pro, there is now a 'full' suite of LFOs 20-99. Is the limit still 100? It appears the new suite has 'superceded' the Craig Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs (30-33). Related Thread - http://forum.cakewalk.com/What-X3-Producer-synthpatches-should-I-try-to-get-Moogy-type-goodness-m3050923.aspx This limit/conflict has always been recognised by Fisound (Chad) who warn/advise on usage with Universal 120 (which has it's own full suite of LFOs which can be switched in/out) We'll have to do the same with the Craig Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs now ... for them to sound as intended(?) Any plans to extend the limit on LFOs and/or create some reserved ranges for third party expansions? Any additional thoughts / improvements as to how we might manage third party / user LFOs? If B Rock is around I'd definitely value your input too. (All input/discussion welcome of course).
post edited by ShellstaX - 2015/05/01 07:54:19
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Anderton
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 09:58:27
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Unfortunately, the custom LFOs for the Electronic Guitars and Minimoog Expansion pack are overwritten if you install certain expansion packs after installing mine. There are only a few LFOs that are essential to my patches. I can upload them as a ZIP file for download if you want.
I could also look into whether I can alter the patches so they don't need the custom LFOs, but the reason why I did the custom LFOs is because I couldn't get the sound I wanted with the "stock" LFOs.
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ShellstaX
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 10:13:26
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I personally do have them thanks Craig - so not necessary on my behalf.
As above - it'd be great to think about how this is best handled moving forward. e.g, with extended / reserved LFO space.
I had a quick look and assume it's only some of the instruments/elements that are affected.
Yeah - that's true ... with a larger set it may now have what you were after or there abouts as stock (?)
I was just having a play with the electronic guitars - I luv the bowed guitar - big fan of the band Big Country.
I guess you've got an E-Bow and or rolled your own :).
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b rock
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 11:53:03
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Well, this saves asking the question if UD-LFO set loading was addressed in Rapture Pro. I suppose that the best workaround remains to be the creation of LFO set subfolders, then swapping them out manually. You'll want to do this for the Galbanum expansion packs, too.
FWIW, I believe that there are/were only 3-4 presets that directly used U-120's LFO package, if that. Part of the 'value-added' construction kit concept. I built them as alternate sequencers, that could also be useful for discrete pitch intervals. I can't recall if Chad put a checkbox option in the installer for these, and for the Scala files.
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scook
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 12:00:06
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IIRC, for Rapture both Galbanum and Fissound create copies of the "LFO Waveforms" folder before filling it up with their data. I was hoping Rapture Pro offered a different way to handle the "LFO Waveforms" folder but it does not appear to be the case.
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ShellstaX
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 12:39:07
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I think Fisound U120 provided a full (20-99) for you to switch in/out but didn't replace things automatically (so the user understood what was going on). I don't have Galbanums but the demos sound great (those in the know ... Have a chat with Andrew Souter - he'd get some sales on the back of RapPro and an attractive sale pricing :) ).
There is a full 20-99 there with RapPro. I didn't think / don't recall checking these just weren't the Fisound LFOs. I'll have to check when next at the wheel.
I did check 30-33 - the CA Guitars - which were different.
I don't know if CA Moogs used any custom ones. IIRC it was discussed in the linked post (above).
Yes I was hoping for a solution with RapPro. But as per B.Rock - looks like manual swap is still the current solution.
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Dan_E10
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 12:55:17
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I just bumped into this issue last night when I was trying out Craig's Minimoog tribute package in Rapture Pro. I had purchased this expansion pack when it cameout a few years ago. I reinstalled it from CCC since I didn't notice that it was already imported along with the rest of the programs from my original Rapture installation. I got a warning that the Minimoog pack was about to overwrite LFO's. I'm not sure if it did because it did not install the waveforms into the multisamples directory. I had to manually copy those from the original Rapture multisamples directory to get sound out of the Minimoog patches.
Anyway, I tried out the "news arpeggiator" patch which I'm fairly familiar with. It sounded completely different in Rapture Pro than I remembered. After opening up an instance of Rapture and comparing, I saw that the filter cutoff has an LFO implemented. In both cases the patch used LFO #28, but in Rapture Pro it was a sine wave while in Rapture it was a flat line. Now I'm wondering which is actually correct? Did the original patch utilize a flat line LFO on accident or on purpose? Is this patch expecting the sine wave LFO or a flat line? It seems like things will be very confusing if different programs are expecting different LFO's and one pack can globally overwrite the LFO's that all the rest of the programs use.
Dan
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ShellstaX
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 19:00:13
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Well written @Dan.
Interesting about 28. I am only aware of having 20-26,30-33 before so may have been missing them (for the Moogs) anyway(?)
Also, of course, you can compare the LFO audibly e.g, open to Windows Media Player. (And would presume it'd be fairly obvious graphically if loaded to a Sonar track).
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b rock
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/01 23:45:16
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☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2015/05/01 23:53:39
ShellstaX
... Any plans to extend the limit on LFOs and/or create some reserved ranges for third party expansions?
Any additional thoughts / improvements as to how we might manage third party / user LFOs? That's a tough one, as it currently stands. The user-defined LFOs are referenced to the 'slot number' - 20 through 99 - and not the LFO.wav itself. And the whole set is loaded on startup from the LFO Waveforms folder. If a few spare bytes were used for 'double-precision' LFO banks, there'd still be no defined standard on which 'slot sets' would be used by any given developer of XYZ expansion pack. A better way would be to save the LFO waveform itself with the .prog file. I don't see Cakewalk saving 80 UD-LFOs per-preset 'just in case', so there would have to be compromises & tradeoffs. I've been a long time proponent of at least a single assignable LFO. One possible option would be to 'tab' the Global/Mixer L+R step sequencer{s) with one or more assignable modulators. - An LFO is really a step sequencer with added smoothing (already a feature).
- The sequencer/LFO could be assigned via the Modulation Matrix, and/or hard-coded into one or more of the current LFO slots.
- Assignable LFOs as a Source would modulate many more (destination) parameters in the Modulation Matrix than are currently available as 'pre-patched' routings.
- Bonus points as an in-synth LFO editor with 2-128 steps, smoothing, drawing & processing tools, copy/extraction, import/export ... (already implemented).
- It would be saved as a macro under each .prog file (another current process).
- Who really uses the Global AMP sequencers anyway? On Left and Right mixdown outputs? (Come on. Be honest).
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ShellstaX
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/02 01:03:40
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Good stuff B.Rock - beyond my experience but exactly the type of knowledgeable input I was hoping to generate for discussion between Bakers and Third Party Wizards.
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rabeach
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/02 11:31:00
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would a simple button to load UD-LFO from a folder on start up work?
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b rock
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/03 08:28:35
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rabeach
would a simple button to load UD-LFO from a folder on start up work?
Inside each .prog file would work. Something that might be possible without a lot of redesign: Add a unique 'flag' to each expansion pack LFO set. The .prog file would point to scanning a subfolder under the main LFO Waveforms folder. Sort of like the Manufacturer / Device ID found in MIDI sysex. LFO Waveforms - LFO Waveforms [Galbanum Piscis]
- Lfowaveform020.wav
- ...
- Lfowaveform099.wav
- LFO Waveforms [FiSound U120]
- Lfowaveform020.wav
- ...
- Lfowaveform099.wav
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rabeach
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/05 12:34:01
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I was thinking along the lines that rapture check it's UD-LFO list by placement position and name and correlate with names and position listed in prog then offer to open folder and load if a one to one was not met.
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chad
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/07 07:51:23
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Hi Guys,
Just stopping by to say hi. My feature request for the custom LFO shapes would be for them to work on any compatible wavetable sized audio file. Then we could utilize wavetables as custom shapes without any limitation in custom LFO shape count. The files would then get saved in the program based on their relative path just like a multisample/wavetable would.
Cheers!
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chad
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Re: RapPro - 100 LFO limit - Anderton Electronic Guitars LFOs superceded (Craig) - U120 (C
2015/05/07 07:59:34
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ShellstaX
Good stuff B.Rock - beyond my experience but exactly the type of knowledgeable input I was hoping to generate for discussion between Bakers and Third Party Wizards.
FWIW I've spoke to the Cakewalk team about the User LFOs. It is a feature they want to enhance, so it is on their radar. Best Regards, Chad
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