What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?

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Beepster
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2014/06/11 07:04:56 (permalink)

What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness?

Love the Moog sound but can't really justify spending money on specific VSTs and I'm ware of freeware on the DAW. I figure there has to be some reasonable emulations or things that are close included with all these wacky synths I've gotten with Sonar.
 
Also it should be noted that I own (and still have installed) everything that came with the X1 Production Suite, X2 Producer as well as X3 Producer.
 
Wouldn't mind dropping a few old school analog bass drops/warbles into some of my stuff. Cheers.
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    Sanderxpander
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 07:21:53 (permalink)
    Nothing will really, genuinely replace the original. But from the tools you have, I have used Z3TA+ to good effect. There are a bunch of vintage presets in there somewhere, and the vintage saws are a good starting point for rolling your own.

    Without a real Moog or even a dedicated VST you're more looking for a "ballpark" approach though.

    The MiniTaur is very affordable by the way. And Monark is dead cheap.
    #2
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 07:32:21 (permalink)
    Thanks. Zeta is the synth I've played with the most so far and I have gotten it to do the brain rattling wobbles and stuff but you're right... it isn't the same, but if that's what'll get me closest then I'll mess with it more. I want to do an in depth study of how to properly use it to create/manipulate patches to learn about synths better anyway.
     
    I figured maybe DimPro might have some stuff but I've barely touched it. I also have a copy of Novation BassStation that came with my interface that I haven't tried yet but I don't think that'll be the same. I also keep seeing threads about it not working properly with Sonar.
     
    I gotta wonder... isn't there a free version of Kontakt Player that comes with a few sounds and that patches can be bought for a la carte? After seeing/hearing some of the stuff that thing can do I should probably consider it for the future.
     
    Anyway... thanks for the heads up. I'll just have to poke around at stuff some more. Cheers.
    #3
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 07:48:18 (permalink)
    Sample based stuff isn't your best bet for synth stuff, although Trilogy is pretty good. But if you want to mangle the sounds and modulate them lots of ways, it's a limited approach. There are a few free Reaktor ensembles I think but I don't believe Monark is in there (which is the only one specifically made to emulate Moog).

    The Bass Station is pretty good but I always considered Novation to be closer to the Roland sound than to the Moog. Only familiar with the V Station though and that's pretty dated, sound wise.

    Z3TA+ is pretty versatile which means you can at least set it up with most of the right parameters to sound like a Mini might. Just google the properties of the specific Moog you're going for. The 24dB/Oct LPF is kind of a given but the Mini's envelopes were also specific, as is the configuration of oscillators (3, but you could switch the third to LFO because otherwise you had none), the "lowest note" priority, etc.
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    Leadfoot
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:17:08 (permalink)
    Have you tooled around with Pentagon? It's got some Moog-y sounds in it. PSYN II has some as well. I think one of these should do the trick for you.
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    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:20:20 (permalink)
    @sander... Great info. Thanks. I actually have a looooong way to go as far as learning even the basics about synths, samplers, etc... but now that I seem to be able to make Sonar do what I need it to as far as recording what I normally do (straight up instrument/live input based music) my studies are shifting more toward synths. Fortunately the time I've spent learning how to work drum samplers has my foot in the door as far as setting up tracks and controllers. Oscillators and filters and "pads" and all that stuff is still greek to me but I'm starting to watch some vids and will work through the manuals. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be nerding it up with you seasoned synth guys.
     
    For now though I will definitely keep reaching for the Zeta+ to do wacky low end stuff. It'll be going into heavily distorted guitar material as accents or to beef up the bottom end with something interesting and so far Zeta seems to cut through nicely.
     
    Cheers.
    #6
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:22:32 (permalink)
    Oh also simple EQ can help a lot to get the right tone. I tried matching a KingKorg to my MicroMoog and ended up using a little low boost on the KK to end up nearly identical.
    #7
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:22:56 (permalink)
    Leadfoot
    Have you tooled around with Pentagon? It's got some Moog-y sounds in it. PSYN II has some as well. I think one of these should do the trick for you.



    Thanks. I actually haven't even touched those and honestly forget about them because they don't get mentioned often. I'll take a look. I think I've got Beatscape too but that seems like it's something completely different.
     
    Cheers.
    #8
    Leadfoot
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:28:07 (permalink)
    I've gotten some great Moog type sounds out of both of those that I mentioned, especially PSYN II.
    #9
    Karyn
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:31:44 (permalink)
    Pentagon is very powerful, and I find the knobs and switches easier to work with than Zeta's menus and drop downs.

    Mekashi Futo
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    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:39:41 (permalink)
    Interesting. I'll definitely be sure to check those out. Man... they really gave me a LOT of synths. So many I apparently can't keep track of them all. lol
     
    Thanks, all.
    #11
    b rock
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 08:46:37 (permalink)
    Rapture with the (free) Muz3um expansion pack installed.
    #12
    ShellstaX
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 10:19:49 (permalink)
    Ya beat me too it @b rock :)
     
    Muz3um has a bunch of Moogs (and Moog Arps) and is available for Rapture (as above) ... and Z3TA+2!
    The Z3TA+2 version goes even further including the Original Muz3em and 540 new patches that take advantage of Z3TA+2 features
    Z3TA+2 Muz3um (free)
    #13
    ShellstaX
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 10:19:49 (permalink)
    duplicate entry of above (somehow(?)) - editted out
    #14
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 11:09:16 (permalink)
    These muz3um patches being referred to... they sound awfully familiar. Is it possible it's one of the free downloads Cake tosses into my account every so often or got included with one of my Sonar/included synth downloads? Or is this something that is strictly available on a third party site?
     
    Anyway... just watching a bunch of vids on the included synths to get an idea of what's what. The Pentagon does seem to be able to get that old analog type sound and does indeed look to be a good synth to learn about stuff as a synth n00b. I also forgot it could be used as a vocoder which is cool. I'm kind of wondering what it could do to an electric bass track as a vocoder.
     
    Thanks for all the insights, guys. Cheers.
    #15
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 11:15:00 (permalink)
    MinimogueVA is freeware, and a pretty rendition of a Minimoog.
     
    I used it for quite a long time, but it IS 32-bit, and therefore you can sometimes get BitBridge weirdness when using it in a 64-bit Sonar install.
     
    BUT, if you use it in a 32-bit install of Sonar, it sounds fabulous, particularly for free.
     
    They also have an ARP2600VA as well, which is a free rendition of an ARP2600 - it too is 32-bit.
     
    I would vouch for these 2 synths, used in a 32-bit Sonar, and potentially used with JBridge.  (I began to have enough instances of weirdness using them in 64-bit Sonar with BitBridge that I stopped doing so.  BUT, I never had those problems using either one in a 32-bit Sonar).
     
    I have subsequently bought the Arturia V Collection, which comes with crazy good Moog synths, along with a total of something like 8-9 synths.  I caught them on a 50% sale, I think it was $150.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #16
    vanblah
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 11:23:55 (permalink)
    +1 for MinimogueVA.
     
    I also like this guy's stuff:  memorymoon.com (although it's not free, it's still pretty inexpensive).
    #17
    ShellstaX
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 11:30:15 (permalink)
    Also Craig Anderton's Minimoog Tribute: Rapture Expansion Pack from the Cakewalk Store.
    Down from $49 to $9.95 at present.
     

     

    #18
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 12:28:32 (permalink)
    I can really, really recommend getting a "knobby" basic synth to learn synthesis on. Alternatively, a properly mapped controller with a layover of the knobs/sliders meanings will help a ton. It will help to make sense of things waaaaayyy faster than clicking around with the mouse might. I hadn't realized you're new to synthesis as a whole, I wouldn't recommend Z3TA+ in that case, cause it kind of assumes you know what all the "building blocks" mean.

    Also, the "Synth Secrets" series done by Sound on Sound is GREAT if you want to learn what's what in synthesis, even just reading the first few articles should help tremendously. Google them, they're free.
    #19
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 12:40:09 (permalink)
    Great stuff. I'm glad I posted this because I'm definitely finding lots of cool stuff to look at based on the suggestions here. I am very much a synth beginner so I don't really have the benefit of having worked with the gear as it all evolved over the past 30 years or so which makes it very intimidating to look at these crazy thingies on my computer. So yeah... I am liking the looks of the Pentagon because I'm guessing it is laid out like an older hardware synth (but a complex one) with similar controls.
     
    I'll be looking into those SOS columns as well. I catch on to stuff quickly but when you have no idea where to start it can be tricky especially when you are a couple decades behind the times. lol
     
    Cheers.
    #20
    scook
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 12:50:48 (permalink)
    If you are going to play around with Pentagon be aware the patches using the Valley Simulators have been known to cause a very loud continuous blast of noise when selected (or on some machines the patches go silent, me I get the noise).
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    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 13:02:00 (permalink)
    scook
    If you are going to play around with Pentagon be aware the patches using the Valley Simulators have been known to cause a very loud continuous blast of noise when selected (or on some machines the patches go silent, me I get the noise).




    Good to know. Are those clearly marked? My ears are still kind of recovering from my DX-7's little freakout the other day.
     
    But I'll be sure to keep the level down while browsing patches just in case. I usually do that anyway after I experienced the DimPro patch browsing noise/crash issue with X1... which was unpleasant.
     
    Cheers.
    #22
    scook
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 13:37:57 (permalink)
    Beepster
     Are those clearly marked?

    No. Best to mute the master when changing patches. As much as I liked the synth, I won't use it anymore, it has not been maintained. The version with X3 is going on 10 years old, long overdue for an update.
    #23
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 14:18:50 (permalink)
    Okay, was having a hard time figuring out what exactly you meant but after some searching it seems the Valleys thing you refer too is just a setting in a specific component of Pentagon and I guess there is no way to know what patch will use that specific setting for that specific component. Yeesh. I'll just have to be careful I guess.
     
    The suggestions made in this post seem to be a reasonable way to handle the issue.
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2733992
     
    Nothing can be easy, eh? lol
    #24
    sharke
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 14:23:09 (permalink)
    Monark is the absolute best Moog emulation, can't stress enough how amazing it sounds. However if you're looking for a freebie to get some quick and easy kosher-sounding analog leads and basses, TAL Bassline is excellent. Considering how old it is, it sounds VERY real for a VST. In fact there are times where I've gone back and forth between Monark and TB because I couldn't decide which sounded best for a lead part. Just be prepared to squint at that tiny old school interface!
    http://kunz.corrupt.ch/products/tal-bassline

    James
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    #25
    scook
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 14:39:02 (permalink)
    What I ended up doing was stepping through the presets and removing the Valley simulator from the patches.
    #26
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 14:55:21 (permalink)
    Yeah, I might do that too if I end up falling in love with the Pentagon.
     
    So uh... what's up with the earlier Triangle version? Same types of problems and/or other known issues? It's apparently free and may be an even easier starting point for n00by ole Beeps. I'm assuming it does a lot of the same stuff but... perhaps just less channels/thingamadoodles?
    #27
    Beepster
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 14:58:57 (permalink)
    Oh and I'll keep all those suggestions for the real Moog emus in mind. I just keep finding ways to do what I want without having to drop extra money or fiddle with third party stuff (I'm paranoid) and I'm thinking that this may be one of those situations. I don't really need a completely pure Moog sound just yet. Just that type of fat gritty brain rattling action.
     
    This has all been very informative.
     
    #28
    scook
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 15:19:30 (permalink)
    The problem is exclusively with the 64bit version of Pentagon, the 32bit version does not have the problem. Triangle II is a 32bit VST and does not have the simulator module.
    #29
    Leadfoot
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    Re: What X3 Producer synth/patches should I try to get Moog-y type goodness? 2014/06/11 15:56:53 (permalink)
    Hey Beepster, have you checked out PSYN II yet? You'll find some nice fat moogy stuff in there too.
    #30
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