Comparison of bass on different bounces of the same song

You can't hear the differences? I'm confused by that... there are very noticeable changes on my system. The one labelled "original CD" (what shows as track 14) sounds the best on my setup...

liked 14 the most too, seemed clearer and more open sounding

The point of a good mix is that it should translate to many/most different playback systems. #14 is the mix that will do that best...
 
More bass does not necessarily mean more low end on the EQ or adding sub harmonic structure. Have you tried applying a little dirt to make it growl, have you tried pushing an upper mid freq to make it punch through (ie: 400, 800, etc...). Another approach I like instead of EQ is to use a multi-band compressor... which will dynamically control the various levels of each range.

Has he heard it on different system, or just your studio monitors. I'm wondering if he heard it of nice phat stereo speakers he'll be like 'man you nailed it, much better than the original!' when you give him version 14.

I listened on my studio speakers (ADAM P-11A + sub), my everyday headphones (ATH-M50) and my best headphones (Sennheiser HD-580).
 
On the Audio-Technica cans, which are bass-hyped, most of the bass-heavy versions were too bassy. On the Sennheisers, which are very flat, some variants were still slightly bass-heavy. 
 
On speakers, your effects did improve on the original but often emphasized not-so-pleasant frequencies in the process. I think the answer is going to be a combination of harmonic distortion and careful equalization. A dynamic EQ might be just the ticket, because the bass part covers such a broad range of notes, making it hard to find settings that will work all the way from start to finish.

Sounds like you're closing in with the dynamic EQ approach. That curve you're showing is very similar to what my bass EQs usually end up looking like whenever I use dynamic equalization on bass.
 
I find the sonogram display to be very helpful for this, as it'll let you see what frequencies are in there on what notes. This is important because before you can apply expansion you've got to first verify that there's something there to expand.

cool song...thx fur sharing.. I'm a bass n guitar player...(and novice home rec eng)...I like the response just before and during the automation....ie....you deff brought it to life versus the too flat for my liking at the beginning. if possible maybe mix/burn a few versions and let the bass/band hear the diffs....but if it's totally your call....your on the right track.... per my ears....sounds very decent . ;-)

BTW... if you want I'll rewatch the vid and PM you a step by step. I wouldn't really want to post something like that without Craig's permission though considering that vid is still for sale. I'm sure he wouldn't mind but yanno... don't wanna be a dill.
 
Cheers.

Thanks bas joker!

He probably explains it much better and with real time vid so if you own it check it out and you'll see what I mean. However I will of course give it a re-watch and type something up for you if you can't find it or something. Let me know. I'm currently trying to bulldoze the filth in my apartment (AKA spring cleaning) but it could be a little break.
 
There is a followup using the Sonitus Multicomp for another technique but it kind of shows how any decent multicomp can yank stuff out for this type of work. He also does some stuff witht he VC-64 which is always cool to watch. Considering it seems like you are wroking with stereo mixes they're worth a look.
 
Anyway... see if you can find them. If not I'll hook you up with the Beeps analysis... lulz. Cheers.

Okay... I just rewatched the vid and typed up a step by step. I'm going to post it here because considering how much Craig shares by way of his "Tips" threads and what not I'm going to assume he does not mind that I post an interpretation of one segment of one series.
 
HOWEVER... say the word, Craig and I will delete this post immediately. Any corrections or observations on my (potentially flawed) pontifimications are of course welcomed by me and I'm sure anyone reading.
 
This following is based on the segment that appears in "Sonar X1 Advanced Workshop: The Next Level (by Craig Anderton)" from 48:20-52:40.
 
This is also how I create my own personal notes for specific procedures I dredge out of such vids and tuts when I think I may want to try them out. This is a little more finely edited for the forum but I have reams of these things with time codes or links to online resources that go from general descriptions to revisit up to full on step by steps like this. lol... I may be insane. This will actually end up in my notes.
 
Cheers.
 
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1) Create Track 1 and import stereo mix into it.

2) Insert LP64 Multiband Compressor (or another multiband compressor/tool that allows you to mute/solo frequency bands like the Sonitus Multiband)

3) Solo the lowest band so only the low end is audible

4) Adjust the band freq range to allow the bass through (he sets to approx 130hz. Note: You could probably do a bandpass type filter to just snag the main bass freq... so use the lo-mid filter instead of the low filter and set the low/high boundaries to the right freqs. He does not say that though but it is what I would try if I was trying to work on a bass part from a stereo mix.)

5) Make sure none of the bands are actually compressing or applying any effects. You want the signal completely unprocessed. It is just a freqeuncy splitter. (In the LP64 he does this by clicking the "All" button and using the following settings:

Threshold = 0.0db
Ratio = 1.0
Gain = 0.0

6) Save as a preset (he names it "No Compression" but "No Compression Lo" or something like that seems better. That way you can save the second instance of LP64 that you are about to create as a distinct preset for easy loading of both).

7) Clone the track (with Clone: Effects/Properties/Effects/Sends selected in the Clone dialog window)

8) In the newly cloned track's FX Bin/Rack double click the LP64 to open that track's instance of LP64.

9) Load the "No Compression" preset (this does not seem necessary because the cloning should have already loaded it... but I'm just typing what is shown in the vid).

10) In the LP64 turn OFF the Solo button for the low band and then solo the rest of the bands. This effectively reverses the freq range being allowed through. So Track 1 has only the lo freqs audible. Track 2 has eveything EXCEPT the lo freqs audible. If using another tool or using a bandpass just make sure that on the second track you invert whatever signals are being allowed through. In other words...

Track 1 = Only low band is heard

Track 2 = Everything EXCEPT the low band is heard

11) Double check to make extra sure NO compression/effects are being applied on either track. Do this by soling both tracks, listen. Then solo ONLY Track 1, turn off the LP 64 and listen. The outputs should be identical. Essentially playing back Track 1 without the LP64 (or whatever you are using) is your raw stereo file. Soloing both tracks with both track's LP64 (or whatever you are using) should be giving you the exact sound as the raw stereo file. In other words...

Track 1 - LP64 = Raw file

Track 1 + 2 + LP64 on both = Raw file

If they sound different you did something wrong. Check to make sure no effect is being applied by the LP64 (or whatever you are using).

12) Set Track 1 Interleave to = Mono

Now all the low frequencies are centered (bass, kick, etc) getting them out of the way of the higher frequencies in the stereo field.

You can now  use Channel Tools or other similar plugins to spread the stereo image of the higher frequencies is desired.

You can also use the Track 2 instance of LP64 as an EQ to increase/decrease the lo-mid/hi-mid/hi bands as desired without compression by increasing the Gain on the bands. Or you could of course add compression to the bands. For the Lo you COULD use the LP64 controls to increase the Gain but just turning up the track fader would (should) have the same effect.



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Sonitus Muliband has slightly different controls for band separation as I'm sure the Melda products do so the process may be slightly differnt but the gist is isolate and separate and make sure that between Track 1 and Track 2 NOTHING is being excluded or doubled up. You want the exact same output as you would get from the original stereo file. THEN monoize your lo end.

I personally would try doing the bandpass thing to get at just the bass and add extra processing to the bass itself instead of the entire lo freq band (but monoizing the whole lo end might be a good idea anyway).

Just some interesting stuff to try.

Cheers.