frankandfree
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 447
- Joined: 2008/04/26 11:56:32
- Location: Norddeutschland
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 19:13:51
(permalink)
Yeah, I just thought the same about <insert car brand>. They still use wheels, laughable, isn't it? They should be ashamed for piggybacking on millenniums of other peoples work. At least they are not selling them cheap which makes it less objectionable, IMO.
|
Thrillington
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 92
- Joined: 2009/11/08 22:51:32
- Location: New Zealand
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 19:35:51
(permalink)
Pretty sure wheels were around before <insert car brand>. Cockos is a joke because it's 3 guys ripping off tech that came after the advent of the DAW. They probably make just as much money as well cause there are only about 3 of them to share it around.
Vista 32bit, Dual Core 3 Gigs, UA-101
|
frankandfree
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 447
- Joined: 2008/04/26 11:56:32
- Location: Norddeutschland
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 19:50:11
(permalink)
<car brand> also uses a steering wheel and gas and break pedals, bummer.
Btw, should Cakewalk drop the arrange window, track headers and inspector or the piano roll? The mixer, VST plugins, step sequencer, tool buttons, keybindings, context menus, where does it stop? You just can't be serious.
|
Thrillington
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 92
- Joined: 2009/11/08 22:51:32
- Location: New Zealand
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 19:55:33
(permalink)
Ha ha, don't worry f&f: I was merely comparing Cockos to some chinese companies that make their livings ripping off overseas competitors. I believe the comparison to be apt. Companies like Cockos destroy innovation. Just had a little look at their homepage- lots of products that distribute other peoples material. Genius.
post edited by Thrillington - 2010/02/19 20:07:07
Vista 32bit, Dual Core 3 Gigs, UA-101
|
frankandfree
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 447
- Joined: 2008/04/26 11:56:32
- Location: Norddeutschland
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 20:13:37
(permalink)
I am pretty sure (admittedly not entirely, though) that the arrange view, event list, track headers, inspector and VST plugins are german inventions, so much for oversea competition ripping. I am not saying it's bad Cakewalk does implement all those features. Competition is a good thing, especially for innovation. I am just amused that the moment someone mentions Cockos on these here forums, (in this thread in an all positive and constructive manner), someone else will chime in spouting uninformed and aggressive talk.
post edited by frankandfree - 2010/02/19 20:16:23
|
Thrillington
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 92
- Joined: 2009/11/08 22:51:32
- Location: New Zealand
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 20:24:30
(permalink)
What you call aggression I call robust discussion. Happy I was able to amuse!
How does Cockos spur innovation? I can undertstand they might bring prices down but doesn't that mean only crap programmers will want to work on
DAWs.
Fake rolex watches look good but how do they improve innovation in watchmaking?
I must sign off now beacuse I am on call.
Vista 32bit, Dual Core 3 Gigs, UA-101
|
frankandfree
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
- Total Posts : 447
- Joined: 2008/04/26 11:56:32
- Location: Norddeutschland
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/19 21:00:33
(permalink)
It's one thing to manufacture a watch that looks identical to a well known prestige object, but is comparably bad in quality, and earn lots of money by selling it to those that feel a need to have such a fake regardless of quality or even make people believe they buy the real thing.
It's another thing to write a fully functional application that is stable and smart, even if it uses paradigms and offers features that are established over time.
Cakewalk does exactly that. They build upon established paradigms and feature sets, yet do innovative stuff. Same goes for the majority of DAW flavours. I could name a bunch of Cockos innovations, but I won't, cause it will only lead to flaming.
Sorry for being part of this derail. Most of the time I am able to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes I can't resist and just react to such ridiculous remarks. Shouldn't happen. My apologies, please go ahead discussing the topic.
|
greysound
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 55
- Joined: 2007/03/27 20:30:21
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/20 20:24:58
(permalink)
Err. Could we stay focused on Sonar's MIDI bug in this thread? It will be infinitely more valuable to readers if it's not diluted with irrelevant bantering.
Silktone, I'm concerned by the support feedback you received. My support thread also (finally) concluded that it's a known issue. This was prior to the last release, so I was surprised to see that a fix hadn't been implemented. Did you specifically hear that it was not on the active fix list because users weren't clamoring for it? Or are you projecting that based on the seeming lack of attention to the problem?
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/21 03:59:40
(permalink)
greysound
Err. Could we stay focused on Sonar's MIDI bug in this thread? It will be infinitely more valuable to readers if it's not diluted with irrelevant bantering.
Silktone, I'm concerned by the support feedback you received. My support thread also (finally) concluded that it's a known issue. This was prior to the last release, so I was surprised to see that a fix hadn't been implemented. Did you specifically hear that it was not on the active fix list because users weren't clamoring for it? Or are you projecting that based on the seeming lack of attention to the problem?
Well, apparently I am not allowed to talk about this bug without being called, amonst other things, a Munchausen sufferer or something (lol), but I'll risk it and answer your question anyway... I was told in an email from tech support that this will not be fixed in 8.5.3. In addition, the email specifically stated that only me and another user logged an official bug report, hence that is why this was not considered to be of high enough importance to be fixed in 8.5.3 (because of "a matter of priorities"). According to the "Submitted to development" status of the bug (which I now know to mean it has been reproduced in-house), this bug has been confirmed by CW since at least 9/24/2009 (and most likely sooner, since the date in the bug report was mangled due to a migration), so I guess the fact that it has not been fixed in none of the three to four releases since then (8.5, 8.5.1, 8.5.2 and 8.5.3) is because of this lower priority. Make of that what you will. And people can feel free to call me names however they want, I am only answering greysound's question...
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
bvideo
Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1707
- Joined: 2006/09/02 22:20:02
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/21 10:10:07
(permalink)
It was news to me that "submitted to development" means the bug has been acknowledged and reproduced in house. That's good info. It helps for the bug reporting process to be more out in the open.
I get the impression Cakewalk is acknowledging two separate MIDI bugs. But I'm not quite sure which bug Silktone is referring to with: ... Unfortunately, since only me and one other person filed bug reports on this, ... I would be very disappointed if I were the only other person who reported the bug of "Interference between notes on same MIDI channel, different ports." My "submit" date was 9/2/2009, but I don't know when the status was changed to "submitted to development".
My experience with sending this (interference) problem through tech support was similar to Silktone's. I sent five emails before the T.S. person understood it to be a bug. There were four different bounces along the lines of can't reproduce, reproduced but only by using invalid settings, use a different channel, problem with your multiport interface software. Many of these responses could have been the result of someone hurrying up to get all their work done, and just having a mindset that most users are asking for and needing help, not reporting a bug. Now that I look back on it, the original post that started the discussion about this bug proceeded in much the same fashion, i.e. we "helpers" sometimes respond the same way as CW tech support.
The process was frustrating (and inconvenient especially because there is no way to simply "reply"). But it did finally converge.
Bill B.
|
greysound
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 55
- Joined: 2007/03/27 20:30:21
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2010/02/21 16:31:37
(permalink)
Thanks for the information. And thanks for letting us know of your bug submission bvideo. I (wrongfully) made the assumption that after my own support thread ended with a bug confirmation and an acknowledgment that it "was a known issue" that that constituted a bug report and I needn't worry about submitting a separate bug report that said the same thing. I presumed that Support was keeping a tally. It does make me wonder how many other user's support threads ended the same way without actually being passed on to the development team. It's fine if that's how the system works. Now we know. I'll make sure I submit a bug report myself. Hopefully others will do the same and this issue can be granted actual "priority status". Okay. It's reported now. And I've verified that two instances of Catanya still crash version 5.3 in exactly the same fashion.
post edited by greysound - 2010/02/21 20:45:34
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 00:40:40
(permalink)
and this STILL hasn't been fixed....
5 years later....
|
Karyn
Ma-Ma
- Total Posts : 9200
- Joined: 2009/01/30 08:03:10
- Location: Lincoln, England.
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 05:30:37
(permalink)
greysound
Thanks for the information. And thanks for letting us know of your bug submission bvideo.
I (wrongfully) made the assumption that after my own support thread ended with a bug confirmation and an acknowledgment that it "was a known issue" that that constituted a bug report and I needn't worry about submitting a separate bug report that said the same thing. I presumed that Support was keeping a tally. It does make me wonder how many other user's support threads ended the same way without actually being passed on to the development team.
It's fine if that's how the system works. Now we know. I'll make sure I submit a bug report myself. Hopefully others will do the same and this issue can be granted actual "priority status".
Okay. It's reported now. And I've verified that two instances of Catanya still crash version 5.3 in exactly the same fashion.
It's very important that if either your issue is determined to be a bug or its confirmed that a feature simply doesn't perform "as advertised" that you file a report using the Problem Reporter. It doesn't matter if someone else has already reported the same issue, the more info the developers have, the easier it is for them for find the source of an issue to fix it. This does NOT mean flood the Bakers with the problem reporter... That is what this forum is for.
post edited by Karyn - 2015/05/14 06:03:46
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
|
Doktor Avalanche 
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 06:19:13
(permalink)
UPDATE Looking at it there is a much better and more up to date issue here (alewgro got there first): http://forum.cakewalk.com/Still-some-issues-with-MIDI-crosstalk-but-now-there-is-an-easy-workaround-m2954622.aspx I suggest swapping that issue out with this one. On that thread the steps to repro are on #11 and CWBRN on #31 AND there's confirmation from Cakewalk that they were supposed to be taking action at the time AND the OP communicated 3 hours ago AND reconfirmation. Thanks for deleting my last post. Ta.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/14 06:25:44
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 11:17:04
(permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
UPDATE
Looking at it there is a much better and more up to date issue here (alewgro got there first):
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Still-some-issues-with-MIDI-crosstalk-but-now-there-is-an-easy-workaround-m2954622.aspx
I suggest swapping that issue out with this one. On that thread the steps to repro are on #11 and CWBRN on #31 AND there's confirmation from Cakewalk that they were supposed to be taking action at the time AND the OP communicated 3 hours ago AND reconfirmation.
Thanks for deleting my last post.
Ta. These threads are ancient, but since these issues are still not fully fixed, I'd just like to make some clarifications re this thread and the other one you linked to ("Still some issues..."). They are related but not really the same thing. - This thread describes the original MIDI crosstalk problem, and a way to reproduce it without using any 3rd party plugins (to prevent the issue being blown off as usual since 3rd party plugins would otherwise be involved). BTW I don't believe there is a way to repro it without 3rd party plugins with the current Sonar, since Beatscape is no longer part of Sonar.
- The other thread describes leftover issues after the issue in this thread has been mostly fixed.
So they aren't really interchangeable.
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/05/14 11:23:42
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 11:29:56
(permalink)
OK fair enough. Here is what I will do. I will start my own write up tonight with screen shots... I will be sure it is detailed as hell (Im a technical writer for a living LOL).
I will submit a new problem report with a new thread tonight and link the new thread post in all these so it can be tracked :)
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/14 12:27:30
(permalink)
I could never repro with beatscape (not part of Platinum) only with Kontakt and that's on the other thread.The issue is identical would still recommend swapping. I was the guy who recommended moving this across when it would have been better to move the other across for reason I've explained previously (which thankfully have not been deleted by a host). Having a thread with cakewalk confirming is esp useful. In these forums one thread equals one bug. At alewgro yet another thread might be the only solution if hosts don't pick up on this. If they use your thread they will still need to move this back to sonar forums as dupe (as per process) Phew... I wish we had a real public bug tracker run by qa. Forums is hard with multiple people in charge. Too many cooks.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/14 12:40:01
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/15 13:53:17
(permalink)
For the record, as mentioned elsewhere, I am not currently able to replicate this issue in Platinum - Dorchester, using either Beatscape or Silktone's "SONAR MIDI Bugs" plugin. I don' have to use Silktone's workaround discussed elsewhere of toggling the Input to None and back, and it doesn't matter whether I have Always Echo Current MIDI Track enabled or not.
I do get a false "confidence recording" clip outline on the armed track, but it doesn't display or echo any events while recording, and the empty clip outline disappears when recording is stopped, leaving nothing behind. The false recording indication isn't ideal, but it doesn't ultimately cause any real problem.
The OP mentions that "Having more than one [MIDI input driver] enabled somehow prevents these steps from reproducing the bug."
I don't currently have more than one MIDI input driver enabled (i.e. I have 8 ports provided by the same MIDI Express XT driver), but there are remnants of previously used interfaces/drivers in the Windows registry and in TTSSEQ.INI and I have a currently disabled Novation Automap input driver listed in MIDI Devices.
I don't know if possibly something about this MIDI driver "history" is preventing the bug from manifesting in my environment, but it would be good to understand and document this exception before submitting a new problem report.
As you can probably understand, I'm not inclined to go messing with the Registry and INI files or uninstalling currently unused drivers to try to deliberately make this bug show up. I just wanted to throw this out as another data point that might help ensure that the Bakers are able to replicate it and get it fixed in a way that isn't environment-dependent.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/15 15:49:14
(permalink)
Yea I know this issue is a bit difficult to repro sometimes as it seems even the order/state of the MIDI drivers can affect it. As for Beatscape, I don't have it on my new system as apparently you will only have it in later Sonar versions now if it was installed from a previous installation. Although I didn't spend a lot of time at it, I wasn't able to find anything else that ships with Sonar that sends MIDI events out, which is required to repro it. IIRC, the ghost confidence recording you saw is a sign that something isn't right, and my experience when that happens is that you will get cut off MIDI notes etc. on other tracks recording from your external MIDI controller. So it will interfere with the recording on unrelated tracks, especially if the events are on the same MIDI channel #. Of course those are different MIDI ports altogether so they should not interfere with each other whatsoever. If I have some time this weekend I'll do another pass through Sonar and see what I can or cannot repro, and maybe some updated steps if I can. But to be honest, my past experience and wasted hours in fruitlessly trying to get these issues to CW's attention makes me almost hesitant to get involved again. It was an extremely unpleasant experience.
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|
Doktor Avalanche
Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4294
- Joined: 2015/03/26 18:02:02
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/15 17:34:30
(permalink)
> But to be honest, my past experience and wasted hours in fruitlessly trying to get these issues to CW's attention makes me almost hesitant to get involved again. I entirely understand, I've asked and given good reason for a thread to be moved across which has easy steps to repro (#74), I put it on a plate to be grabbed and the request appears to be ignored. I was CakeAlexS previously in case you don't know who previously validated your issues a while back (now under username Splat). You/we put a lot of work into it and that's what happens... People wonder why I come across frustrated I've been doing this for years. I notice a lack of enthusiasm all round to be honest.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/05/15 17:45:37
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/15 19:29:14
(permalink)
SilkTone
IIRC, the ghost confidence recording you saw is a sign that something isn't right, and my experience when that happens is that you will get cut off MIDI notes etc. on other tracks recording from your external MIDI controller.
I don't really think it's a problem so long as it's not showing note events. I think they just never differentiated the confidence recording "shadow" by port/channel; If a track is armed and MIDI events are showing up anywhere, you get the shadow. And the original "crosstalk" issue of same-channel events on different physical ports causing note truncation was fixed sometime in X1.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
Re:Finally been able to duplicate the "Enable MIDI Output" bug without 3rd party plugins.
2015/05/16 11:21:53
(permalink)
brundlefly
SilkTone
IIRC, the ghost confidence recording you saw is a sign that something isn't right, and my experience when that happens is that you will get cut off MIDI notes etc. on other tracks recording from your external MIDI controller.
I don't really think it's a problem so long as it's not showing note events. I think they just never differentiated the confidence recording "shadow" by port/channel; If a track is armed and MIDI events are showing up anywhere, you get the shadow. And the original "crosstalk" issue of same-channel events on different physical ports causing note truncation was fixed sometime in X1. This issue was definitely not fixed in X1. The crash with multiple VSTis sending MIDI out and the MIDI crosstalk + cut-off notes while recording were only fixed in X3d. That is mentioned in this thread. After X3d I don't believe there were any additional fixes made in this area. So the lingering issues mentioned in that thread are still present. As for the confidence recording issue, you might be right. However from what I remember before X3d, whenever I saw the shadow recording on a MIDI track while it was recording (and while I wasn't actually playing anything on the keyboard yet), I knew it meant I can just give up because at that point Sonar would be bleeding MIDI events from unrelated tracks into that track that was recording. So I'm inclined to think it might still be a leftover from the original issue. I mean, what good is "confidence" recording if it is showing you incorrect info to begin with? That's like recording audio on one track but it is showing you the waveform preview from another track. How "confident" can you be that it is actually recording the thing you think it is recording?
post edited by SilkTone - 2015/05/16 11:27:59
Windows 10 Pro x64, SONAR Platinum 64-bitFocusrite Scarlett 18i8 USB, ASRock Z97 Pro4, Haswell 4790k @ 4.4GHz32GB DDR3/1600, 500GB SSD (OS) + 256 GB SSD + 3TB MDNVIDIA GTX-1070, 40" 4K Monitor + 1 Monitor in ISO booth
|