joden
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[Solved] SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
Brand new project I started this morning...created about three tracks (with two VSTi's) and then went to record a fourth track and all of a sudden SP has this midi (or audio, I am not sure) latency - about 25ms I estimate, when it SHOULD be 5.8 according to preferences. This is so bloody frustrating...as it really seems random. And the latency is not restricted to just recording the track, it also is evident when the track is played back. Opening and closing the project doesn't fix it nor does re-booting both the PC and audio/midi interface. Any ideas? And I just discovered it is also now only receiving over MIDI channel 1 - no other channels work.
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lfm
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 18:41:58
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For such occasions it would be really helpful if Sonar showed current pdc used. Either way, did you try activate pdc on control bar?
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Resonant Serpent
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 18:59:27
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Not enough information given in order to assess and help. What instruments and what plugs? Some plugs have a defined pdc in order to operate correctly, such as a linear eq. Even if you have a low ms count for your driver, the plug will add to it.
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 20:57:42
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Transient shapers and limiters often have a lookahead function that delays everything. They are intended to be used while mixing.
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joden
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 23:49:17
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Well I think I have narrowed it down the the LP-64 EQ - everytime I insert it into ANY track, the latency happens, remove it and it goes back to normal. As I said it doesn't even need to be in the track being recorded. Weird!!
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 23:54:24
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ANY plug-in on ANY track or bus which uses a look ahead buffer must affect the whole project. It has to work this way or the tracks would not be in sync. The only time this is not the case is when the track with the plug-in is archived or the effects bin containing the plug-in is disabled. Disabling the plug-in alone is not enough.
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/18 23:58:26
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The LP-64 is a processor-intensive, linear phase EQ. It's designed primarily for mastering, and mixing if used in a limited number of tracks. The TS-64 acts similarly.
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 00:01:25
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Just to be clear, the two sources of latency are on the audio side of the DAW - your audio interface and it settings and
- plug-ins added to the project.
If you suddenly start to experience latency it is almost always a plug-in.
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 00:04:09
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Anderton The LP-64 is a processor-intensive, linear phase EQ. It's designed primarily for mastering, and mixing if used in a limited number of tracks. The TS-64 acts similarly.
Yes, the documentation for these plug-in contain notations about latency. Most plug-ins which use a look ahead buffer have some mention of latency, use of look ahead buffers or a clear statement the plug-in is designed for mixing or mastering. All three are code for "do not use while tracking."
post edited by scook - 2015/06/19 00:10:15
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 00:52:05
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Without comment on what should or should not be included in a Documentation, I wonder if some nice person(Craig?) would mind listing the plugins in Splat that they consider Look-Ahead, cause latency or are designed for mixing for the less knowledgeable(me) that browse this forum? Thanks in advance, Mel
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
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joden
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 01:33:31
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So who went and marked the thread solved? I didn't [scratching head]
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 01:47:39
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There is at least one host and CW staff with the ability to make silent edits, I am not one of them. When I alter a user post in any way, it will show that I made the change. Was the issue resolved?
post edited by scook - 2015/06/19 01:53:42
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 01:49:41
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The clock has drifted so far, even user silent edits are almost impossible, see the above post where I made an edit to my own post in less than 2 minutes after the original post.
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Larry Jones
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 02:20:59
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☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2015/06/19 09:00:28
joden So who went and marked the thread solved? I didn't [scratching head]
Good question. My question: Is it solved? I just started having a very similar -- actually, identical -- problem, and pressing "E" to disable all effects did not fix it. Tomorrow I think I will simply delete all the plugins I was using and see what happens. I often add plugins before I'm finished tracking, because I want to get an idea of what the mix going to sound like. This is the first time I've had this happen.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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robert_e_bone
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 07:11:37
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Do you have WiFi on your system? This is a known potential issue, where folks have had to disable their WiFi adapter drivers or physically turn off WiFi (if there is a switch to turn it off), then they can launch Sonar without DPC Latency spikes. They turn on WiFi after finishing their Sonar session, and all is well. Another potential is regarding antivirus software - or possibly some other background service, adding a bunch of DPC Latency. Try suspending your antivirus software just before launching Sonar, and enabling it again after finishing your Sonar session. Bob Bone
post edited by robert_e_bone - 2015/06/19 07:18:07
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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williamcopper
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 08:50:00
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I agree about putting "SOLVED!" on a post ... it's deceptive. Makes the casual viewer think it was just operator error, when usually, as here, it's a mixture of insufficient knowledge or inadequate documentation or design choices that are not clear. Reading threads like this can be informative, and the "Solved" label is kind of a dis-incentive to read them. I for one didn't understand the thing about latency on a plug-in affecting everything, even if muted or disabled, except if archived. And how, by corollary, archiving a track that has such a plug-in will suddenly change the whole latency picture ... surely leading many a user to frustrating issues of things that used to match up no longer matching.
post edited by williamcopper - 2015/06/19 08:59:34
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scook
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 09:35:26
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williamcopper I agree about putting "SOLVED!" on a post ... it's deceptive. Makes the casual viewer think it was just operator error, when usually, as here, it's a mixture of insufficient knowledge or inadequate documentation or design choices that are not clear. Reading threads like this can be informative, and the "Solved" label is kind of a dis-incentive to read them.
It would appear adding "[Solved]" was not a sufficient dis-incentive this time. It should neither encourage nor discourage the interested reader. It does add a piece of information about the subject that some may find useful. In this case, the resolution was the user's choice of plug-ins. In order for certain plug-ins to work correctly, their input must be buffered. It is well documented and has been discussed on this forum for years. Your conclusion about PDC recalculation is just wrong. Fortunately PDC recalculcation does not result in williamcopper leading many a user to frustrating issues of things that used to match up no longer matching.
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charlyg
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 09:45:30
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I go right to the SOLVED ones. It may save me some time in the future...
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 10:04:00
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☄ Helpfulby musec03 2015/06/19 15:03:09
williamcopper I agree about putting "SOLVED!" on a post ... it's deceptive. Deceptive? What the hell?!? I marked it solved because the OP said "Well I think I have narrowed it down the the LP-64 EQ - every time I insert it into ANY track, the latency happens, remove it and it goes back to normal. As I said it doesn't even need to be in the track being recorded. Weird!!" "Solve" means "find an answer to, explanation for, or means of effectively dealing with (a problem or mystery)." Read what the OP said. That is EXACTLY the situation. An explanation was provided, an answer was found, and that answer provided a means of dealing with the problem. Makes the casual viewer think it was just operator error, when usually, as here, it's a mixture of insufficient knowledge or inadequate documentation or design choices that are not clear. Reading threads like this can be informative, and the "Solved" label is kind of a dis-incentive to read them. I disagree as much as it is possible to disagree. First of all, it's ridiculous to think that saying "solved" implies a value judgement that something was operator error. See the definition above. Second, and the reason for changing a thread title to include "solved," is that putting solved is an INCENTIVE to read it because if you have ever experienced this issue, you can see that there is a thread with an answer. Also, adding [Solved] means that anyone with basic search chops can use the magic string: site:forum.cakewalk.com [solved] To return hits that are chock full of tips. And if someone has this issue, this will make it much easier to find a solution. I suspect I'm not the only person who scans the forum for threads that are marked "solved" so I can build my personal knowledge base about solutions to problems for future reference. Accusing "deception" seems like a very strange conclusion to reach about something that's done to make it easier for people to "find an answer to, explanation for, or means of effectively dealing with (a problem or mystery)." Most people remember, and are courteous enough, to add this themselves. As long as an OP finds a solution to a problem, and states they have found a solution, I will continue putting [Solved] in the title to benefit other users. I might add that I'm always appreciative of people who circle back into a thread and indicate when a problem has been solved. Particularly in the case of operator error, some people are too embarrassed to return to the thread and confirm that something was their fault, and not a flaw with SONAR as they sometimes claim in their OP. Therefore the thread is never marked "solved," thus making it that much more difficult for someone making the same error to find a solution.
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 10:09:56
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And by the way, this post explains another very good reason for adding "solved."
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charlyg
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 10:10:05
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And if it didn't solve someone else's similar problem, they need a different solution and need to start a NEW thread,so as to keep solutions tied to the OP. How's that for a run on sentence?
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/19 10:16:59
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joden
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 13:23:10
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Anderton And by the way, this post explains another very good reason for adding "solved."
Thanks Craig - please don't misunderstand, I had NO problem with it being marked as so, I was just curious who did it... fwiw I concur, as far as this thread title was concerned the issue was solved and I learnt soemthing in the process from Scook (as always  ) and yourself.
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John
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 14:17:40
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I will also add solved when a question is answered or a problem has been solved. I do this after it is clear it has been solved for the reasons Mr. Anderton has already stated. No deception is intended what so ever. The notion that a host or a CW staffer would want to deceive is an absurdity.
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williamcopper
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 19:38:00
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The notion that a host or a CW staffer would want to deceive is an absurdity.
well. are you sure about that? I see many many posts that someone seems to have doctored to make the product seem better than the people who post about it think. I use Sonar, I appreciate its good points, but it is still, like many other programs by Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and other top producers, in my estimation buggy, weirdly and carelessly designed, and counter-productive. And, hosts, marking ANYTHING at all on a post that is not your own, is overstepping a boundary, again in my lonely opinion. Just make a comment, if appropriate (and some are very helpful, no question) but don't doctor an existing post.
post edited by williamcopper - 2015/06/19 19:48:47
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Larry Jones
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:19:18
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On my project where I had this problem, today I went through and started deleting plugins while tapping on the kick drum key. At some point, the latency went away completely. I "undid" the most recent deletion, and the latency did not come back. I started undoing previous actions, trying to discover exactly which effect was causing the latency. Long story short I never found out. I'm guessing that there is some amount of time before a latency-causing effect actually begins to cause latency, sort of a latency latency. This is not actually important, as I could easily have kept working on tracking the project with or without any and all of the effects, but... I do think as a courtesy to forum users, hosts and staff should check with the original poster if (s)he feels the problem is solved before marking it solved, even if it looks to you as if it has been solved. If I had started this thread, for example, I might still have issues (see my first paragraph), and still be looking for answers. There is time enough to mark it solved. Or if it is going to be a policy that your questions might be marked "answered," then publish that policy as part of the code of conduct, perhaps with a notice that we owe it to each other to mark our own posts promptly. Love you all.
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:20:05
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williamcopper
The notion that a host or a CW staffer would want to deceive is an absurdity.
well. are you sure about that? I see many many posts that someone seems to have doctored to make the product seem better than the people who post about it think. Given these "many many" posts, can you provide one example of what you mean by "doctoring" and a "doctored" post? What do you see that makes it "seem" that this mysterious deceptive "someone" has been poking around changing someone else's post? I have NEVER changed what someone else has written in a post, and I don't think any other host has, either. If you consider putting "Solved" in the header of a post where the OP has said the problem was solved an example of "doctoring," then I think you are missing the entire point of a peer-to-peer support forum. The purpose of this forum is to assist people in getting the most out of SONAR, both in terms of useful techniques and solving problems. Indicating when a solution has been found for a problem increases a thread's value considerably.
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charlyg
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:33:29
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Anderton [ The purpose of this forum is to assist people in getting the most out of SONAR, both in terms of useful techniques and solving problems. Indicating when a solution has been found for a problem increases a thread's value considerably. And that's the name of THAT tune... It seems some folks think companies put up forums just for complaints. That is not a community, it's a "returns" desk.
post edited by charlyg - 2015/06/19 20:41:06
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:34:31
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Larry Jones I do think as a courtesy to forum users, hosts and staff should check with the original poster if (s)he feels the problem is solved before marking it solved, even if it looks to you as if it has been solved. If I had started this thread, for example, I might still have issues (see my first paragraph), and still be looking for answers. There is time enough to mark it solved. Or if it is going to be a policy that your questions might be marked "answered," then publish that policy as part of the code of conduct, perhaps with a notice that we owe it to each other to mark our own posts promptly.
The problem is that the majority of the OPs don't mark their own posts promptly, or put "solved" in the thread title when it's solved, even when they say in a thread that it's solved...they're happy the problem is solved and they go back to making music. And because the problem is solved, they don't go back to the thread and see where someone like scook or roberet_e_bone or whoever has requested that they please put "solved" in the header. So someone has to do it for them. As already explained in painstaking detail, putting "solved" in the header provides numerous benefits to the community and to those who understand how search engines work. Unless someone can point out a legitimate reason not to call attention to how to solve a problem, I don't see any downside. I don't add "solved" unless the poster has indicated the problem has been solved, which is clearly what happened with this thread. The only time I will add solved without this is if the thread has sat there for a considerable amount of time, a solution which clearly solves the problem based on past experience has been presented, and the OP never came back to confirm that the posted solution solved his problem. It's FAR more likely someone will return to a thread if a problem is not solved. If I add "solved" for any reason other than the two above, I will post in the thread saying I added "solved," and explain why. For example I think the guy who solved his Axiom problem because it wasn't compatible with USB 3.0 by using a USB 2.0 hub that was compatible with 3.0 presented a brilliant tip that has applications beyond just the Axiom 49. Technically, it didn't "solve" the compatibility issue per se - the Axiom 49 still doesn't work with USB 3.0 - but it solved how the Axiom 49 could be made compatible with a USB 3.0 system. So I put "solved" in the header, and explained why in a post. Seriously, how can anyone have a problem with that?
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charlyg
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:38:15
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I gotta be "serious" too?
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Anderton
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Re: SP is doing it again - creating MIDI(audio?) latency for no apparent reason..
2015/06/19 20:50:55
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You can be Sirius, or you can be XM. Your choice.
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