Agreed. I meant that the more of us that are aware then the more likely things can change and the internet serves that larger awareness.

And we're back to why I think that little ART Tube/Compressor unit might help me out. Probably not the greatest compressor/preamp out there but if it smooths the signal a bit and can add a bit of tube color/boost if I want/need then I can take it from there in the box. I don't want to TOTALLY squish things on the way in but it would certainly be nice to see some reasonably even wave forms on my screen and be able to control HOW even they are a little bit. Some analog warmth seems like a good thing too.
 
I do great with the stuff in the box I think but I know I could do so much more with even just a SLIGHTLY better signal. Ever so SLIGHTLY better. I can worry about the intricacies/become more refined in my tastes of outboard gear as I learn.
 
Nothing worse than dropping hundreds or even thousands of dollars on something that just ain't the right piece of kit. I learned that in my live days. I've owned some brilliant vintage gear that was pretty and sounded great but for what I was doing all I really needed was guit with a fast fretboard, decent PUPs and high powered amp to throw shiz.
 
In this scenario I think I just need a bit more even-ess and texture (that I can control/dial in) and then go nutballs with the mountains of plugins I've got installed ont he computer.
 
Yanno?
 
That's all kind of of topic... sort of... maybe... whatevs... meh.
 
Great convo though.
 
;-)

Don't know about the MP one. Do you mean this version? ($58)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=257221&gclid=CjwKEAjwq-OsBRDd95aryprR9wQSJACQnU3GsVmcBbReg8_580Qh9OLjgvtlHMu8yCq6lgyhtfPczBoCuUzw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&A=details&Q=
 but the original Pro VLA gets great reviews. There's one on eBAY for $99+$35s/h
http://www.tapeop.com/reviews/gear/74/pro-vla-ii/
 
What price point are you talking about? I got my WA76 for $400 used.
 
 
 
 

pentimentosound
Excellent reference article on the various types/models, Bat!
Michael

+1
 
I read that article yesterday.  That's what prompted me to look closer at the PC76 U-Type.

Jeff Evans
Be very careful using hardware compression on the way in.
 
You are stuck with this after the event.

+1 I only use a bit of h/w compression (Markbass Compressore pedal) when live, never when recording (only a wet output; no dry; could split it with a DI, but don't have one except for the one built into my amp).

I imagine you can do some of what you want, with that then. Hope you get it.
 
RE Tracking with comp.
     I haven't used any "on the way in" for so long, that I don't see the point to stop. I do intend to try this new WA76 on some stuff, but will do tracks of (whatever); One with and one without it.
    Back when I tried tracking with, say bass through my (then)dbx DDP, I didn't get much I was happy about. I didn't know enough. Since I didn't need to "pack the tape" any longer (with DAW), I just did lower levels or for worst case scenarios, 2 tracks of things, with one at my normal level and one even lower for a "safety" track.
    In 2000, I tracked Rachael Davis' Minor League Deities, I did the "extra safety track", because she could zip from soft to "holy crap!", very fast! LOL      She only wanted (or needed) to do one take of each track. She knew her vocals inside out, but I didn't. I tried to "ride the gain", but it was ridiculous to attempt! LOL
 
Michael
 

Hi, Karyn (and everyone). I certainly appreciate that sentiment and 99% of what I'll be doing (and am doing) is in the box type stuff. However after the past year of trying out all my various input methods using the hardware I have on hand there are a couple things that aren't QUITE where I'd like them to be and some of the routing deficiencies/inconveniences are spurring the purchase as well. I think I'm also experiencing a bit more line level noise than I need to with some of the wacky set ups I've concocted. I am extremely happy with the direct inputs on the Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 I own but it's not perfect. It needs something else to just give it a bit of a quality nudge and I need some simpler/more flexible routing options.
 
The unit I'm looking at (the MP/C) is actually being considered for other purposes but the fact it has a compressor adds to its appeal for me (there are much better units for this type of stuff BUT most cost way more and/or I would have to purchase multiple units to acheive the same thing... which I will eventually now that I've been made aware of the "Lunchbox" style stuff).
 
To describe the initial problem... well I was having a bit of a hard time driving certain equipment and software/getting the sustain I want from my straight guitar signal. I do not use or own active pickups which might help in this regard but after playing around a bit I realized my old MXR Gain booster pedal worked pretty good for that "in betwixt the guit and the gear" signal boosting I needed. Not great though and it's a little noisy. I also don't have an adapter for it (batteries are expensive/I drain them quickly) and there is obviously very limited routing/uses with it.
 
So that got me looking at similar items like high quality DI boxes and that got me looking at tube pres for instruments and that got me looking at multi use pres and that led me to the ART stuff (again thanks to bats...). Unfortunately most of those MP series units do NOT handle guitar signals but work for bass and vocals (did I mention I REALLY need something to tweak up my dynamic mics? Well I do). So as I was digging around at those and about to give up I saw the MP/C unit which has a high Z scheme but also just happened to have a compressor as well.
 
THAT got me thinking about how great my bass sounds going direct using various sources (like through the line outs of my amps or even just straight into the interface) but the unevenness of the levels was problematic and I was going to start getting into manually adding gain automation to control such things (and not just for bass... essentially manual limiting/boosting so it all hits the other effects properly which is probably better than just letting a software limiter handle it all).
 
So really the main thing I was originally considering was just adding a real tube drive/gain boost to my input to add a touch more complexity and sustain to my "dry" signals (which I handle pretty well in the box already). Being able to START with a nice even waveform (and of course I can adjust how even it is... don't want to kill my dynamics right out of the gate) so I can save myself some work/annoyance of trying to limit/compress using plugins before I even starting trying to polish/mix the signal (which I am also getting good at but it's an extra step and I have a feeling I might get better results having this done before it hits the converters as bats is mentioning). Since the box acts as a DI and has phantom power and can be used for reamping and can be used with NO drive/compression and effect at all then it solves some routing annoyances (for example right now I've got cables running all over my little studio from my amps to my mixer to the interface and in all sorts of wacky configurations it gets annoying and even painful due to my crippled up back to set this crap up just right) so I can plug straight into the interface, send one cable out to the interface and go nuts OR I can plug into the box, then out to my nice Mackie mixer (which I really like) then out to the interface (I cannot plug my bass or guitar straight into the mixer... I've always wished I could so this is a good solution for that).
 
If my little daydreams, schemes and hopes for this thing don't work out at the very least it should help me get better use out of the mics I have for the voiceover/lesson/video stuff I've been plotting for quite some time. I have some interesting mics around that sound really good BUT they are kind of weak and erratic as far as level management. I think they could be great with a little bit of extra help and of course an input compressor/limiter could help things from getting too hairy (thus saving me from having to excessively edit/treat simple voice over tracks).
 
So, yeah. I get it and I am a little disappointed that I can't just take my inputs as is and totally make them golden easily inside the computer but it's darned close. With a better mixing board (there is no dynamics section on the Mackie nor proper intrument ins) or if I had a proper soundroom and proper mics I likely would do stuff like this and certainly for recording a band it would be a little dangerous treating signals on the way in (due to my lack of experience)... however it's just me in my little room. I can experiment and retrack to my hearts content so I have no worries goofing around with a little bit of compression. It will probably be good for me anyway to start dinking around with controlled outboard dynamic stuff like this even if it is in it's most basic form.
 
Just my thought process. Of course the warnings are appreciated and beneficial to others. I mostly posted this to figure out why someone would make the 4:1 statement and the answer of "probably so a n00b could hear it without killing it TOO much" seems to be the most logical answer. I generally keep my thresholds low and in two stages (one to tame/even the signal a bit, then eq, then the REAL compression to sweeten ) unless doing something specific. I think I'm a stage 2 n00b at this point really.
 
/yammer yammer yammer
//lol
///cha-cheeers

I've actually owned the Mackie for quite a few years now. I used to use it with my old DAW in my bandroom (but did not allow it to be used as the rehearsal workhorse... I had some beater mixers for that).
 
It's a Mackie CR-1601 but it's the old, pre-Onyx era, American made one that has the modular "pod" design. It came with the extra mic pre pod so instead of just the standard 8 XLR ins I can hook mics up to all sixteen channels. It's pretty sweet and I got it for a decent price (but they seem to be goign for a little less these days.
 
It's built like a tank to the point I can barely lift it (due to my bad back) but it has direct outs on the first 8 channels (which I can hook up to the line ins on the interface) as well as a pretty nice aux in/out scheme. It was pretty much in new condition when I got it and I try to take good care of it (I cover it with a towel when not in use).
 
Nice clean/crisp signal and the EQ section is sweet. No dynamics section though (so no compressor) and no Inst/Hi-Z ins like some newer boards have which is why I need something a little extra to run into it.
 
I really love this mixer though. Being able to line in from my guit/bass to it would be freaking brilliant.
 
The newer Mackie pres (Onyx) are SUPPOSED to be nicer but I seriously like what this mixer does with a mic signal. The design is certainly piggish compared to the newer, lighter CR series but this thing is definitely built to last. Gotta love old school US engineering for that. Since it's reasonably simple, modular and likely all handwired (sans tons of circuit board tomfoolery) if something DOES go wrong it should be relatively easy to repair. The newer stuff all seems like it's begging to break down and require special parts. I hate that.
 
Cheers!

Ah. I've had the CR and a vlz Pro 1604, but I've been thinking of the 1642 and looking for a vlz4. I imagine a vlz Pro would do, and am gun shy of the vlz3 series.
My last big home set up had a 24-8 and a pair of patchbays, so it was all ready to go or change quickly. I still think an outboard mixer is easier for me.
 
Have you seen this article on the original CR1604?
http://www.silentway.com/recording-tricks-mackie-cr-1604-mixer
Michael

I've been trying this for bass...
http://distorqueaudio.com/plugins/vitamin-c.html
into this...
https://www.tseaudio.com/software/tseBOD
and finally into MixIRII using a simple Ampeg 8X10 IR with a 57 2" off the cap.
Sounds good.
 
As for compression on buses I always start with 1 X 1.5 ratio. I don't compress much more than a db or two.
Of course Danny, Jeff and Bats know what their doing and I'm a hack...so?

maximumpower
I am curious, how does a compressor "... cover up musician's mistakes"? I have heard this before. Does it have to do with the picking hand? In that it levels out the picking dynamics?

My point was based on the ignorance of people who happily sound off about what they think compression (or distortion/fuzz on guitar ) "does" despite not having a clue what it actually is or does. A typical example would be that "electric guitarists use distortion because that way their wrong notes coan't be heard, never get away with that on a proper (acoustic) guitar". In reality of course a highly compressed electric guitar is actually harder to control than an acoustic because of the need for much better control and string damping to prevent chaos. And compression/distortion makes every glitch painfully obvious.

It's an attitude that's died out a lot over the last 20 years, largely as the generation that held it have died off. Though there are still people around, at least in the UK, who come out with it.

The same kind of people can be heard saying that using MIDI takes all the skill out of music because "MIDI does it all for you" and similar nonsense about using computers (which apparently just make all the music for us). Again, they have no idea what MIDI or a DAW actually is.

One way compression can cover up mistakes, as has been said, is that on guitar or bass it can compensate for a very uneven picking ability. Personally I think that there's a bigger danger in always using compressors on guitars which is why I groan when I see beginners saying that they bought a compressor (or distortion pedal) and leave it on all the time to sound more "instantly professional".

If you learn to play electric guitar with a permanently on compressor evening out the volume and attack you'll never learn how to make the instrument truly expressive, how to alter tone with just your fingers or how you can take a well set up amp from clean into overdrive at will by how you pick or finger the strings alone. It's throwing away much of the nature of the instrument.