pwalpwal
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/08 10:08:43
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i'd be interested to know what the changes were, for sonar 2015/x-x to become compatible, none of my other apps have done such a thing?
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Sycraft
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/08 19:15:58
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They didn't need to change anything, they just took the time to verify it and release a statement of official support. MS tends to change very little in the application API precisely to maintain compatibility with older apps, and even goes so far as to create workarounds for specific things. So basically anything that works on Windows 8 will work on Windows 10. It would be a very rare program that does something tricky, probably using a kernel module, that would have an issue.
I mean I still run games that are very, very old on my system. I play Baldur's Gate from time to time. On the box it says "Requires Windows 95/98 with DirectX 8.0 or better." Has no problems in 8.1 though.
But, most companies are pretty lazy about testing. So a new version of windows comes out and they don't test their stuff with it. If they release a statement at all it is something along the lines of "Any problems you have are your fault, we haven't tested this," so that they can just disclaim responsibility. If it is old software that isn't being updated anymore they just leave the compatibility listing as is (as with Baldur's Gate) if it is newer stuff, they get around to updating it eventually, usually when a new major version drops.
Cakewalk was just really on the stick with official testing and support. Doesn't mean the older versions don't work fine, they do. I bet any of them released for 32-bit Windows work just fine. Just means they ran a set of tests on the latest one to make sure it works well, and are proclaiming official support. They are doing it for two big reasons:
1) Cakewalk has a history of being up on the latest tech and Windows trends. It has been a big thing for them. New tech comes out, they jump on it much faster than competitors. So it was with 64-bit support which they were very quick with, and other things like that.
2) More importantly, they are trying to sell people on the new pricing model. You may notice more than a few people have been skeptical or openly hostile to the new way of selling Sonar. What they are doing to combat that is trying to show how fast you get new features and support. So this is part of that. They made sure they were ready for Windows 10 and could release an update which they could then bless as officially supported, demonstrating to people the advantage of not having to wait.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/08 21:10:06
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Sycraft
They didn't need to change anything, they just took the time to verify it and release a statement of official support. MS tends to change very little in the application API precisely to maintain compatibility with older apps, and even goes so far as to create workarounds for specific things. So basically anything that works on Windows 8 will work on Windows 10. It would be a very rare program that does something tricky, probably using a kernel module, that would have an issue.
I mean I still run games that are very, very old on my system. I play Baldur's Gate from time to time. On the box it says "Requires Windows 95/98 with DirectX 8.0 or better." Has no problems in 8.1 though.
But, most companies are pretty lazy about testing. So a new version of windows comes out and they don't test their stuff with it. If they release a statement at all it is something along the lines of "Any problems you have are your fault, we haven't tested this," so that they can just disclaim responsibility. If it is old software that isn't being updated anymore they just leave the compatibility listing as is (as with Baldur's Gate) if it is newer stuff, they get around to updating it eventually, usually when a new major version drops.
Cakewalk was just really on the stick with official testing and support. Doesn't mean the older versions don't work fine, they do. I bet any of them released for 32-bit Windows work just fine. Just means they ran a set of tests on the latest one to make sure it works well, and are proclaiming official support. They are doing it for two big reasons:
1) Cakewalk has a history of being up on the latest tech and Windows trends. It has been a big thing for them. New tech comes out, they jump on it much faster than competitors. So it was with 64-bit support which they were very quick with, and other things like that.
2) More importantly, they are trying to sell people on the new pricing model. You may notice more than a few people have been skeptical or openly hostile to the new way of selling Sonar. What they are doing to combat that is trying to show how fast you get new features and support. So this is part of that. They made sure they were ready for Windows 10 and could release an update which they could then bless as officially supported, demonstrating to people the advantage of not having to wait.
Agree. Spot on. I will wait but I TOTALLY agree. Logical and correct and how it is. Well put sir. The sad thing is people think I don't think this way. There are grey areas always. I'm pissing my pants that was so well written. Thanks. Some people (Inc cake) think I hate Cakewalk. Nope.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/08 21:22:56
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gswitz
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/08 22:29:28
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I pretty mucht throw myself on the sword every time a new version comes out.
I can't resist.I upgrade.
And things don't work perfectly for a time and I report them.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Fog
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/09 22:43:17
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Atsuko
Jeff, after the win 10 update, is your Delta 1010 working ok? Thanks.
wouldn't bother m-audio/avid are only interesting in flogging you new hardware and their drivers are woeful..their support was awful and they wanted to charge me!!! so I put mine on ebay , sold it.. and won't ever be funding the top folk at avid , who seem to forget who was paying their wages. I'm waiting a bit to get a new audio card... to see what others are retiring. just because windows came out don't mean you have to install it ASAP.. I only installed it on a really old PC and my new laptop because both had 8 on, and for me thats in "ME and vista" realms of awfulness
post edited by Fog - 2015/08/09 22:50:52
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/09 22:58:01
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Yup I'm glad I'm testing it first. Reading these forums for instance you will see plenty of happy saffire Pro users on Windows 10, if I had updated on the basis of this I would have been screwed. It does not work if you are running the VIA FireWire chipset. I regard myself as a seasoned pro when it comes to new OS rollouts. However I never know what is going to happen without testing.
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noynekker
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/10 00:12:28
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☄ Helpfulby Cactus Music 2015/08/10 00:51:20
Yes, the more I read, the more nervous about windows 10 I get . . . mostly because I have a legacy audio card, and haven't found any conclusive proof that it will work properly in the new environment.
So I searched online, and found the particular windows update that is associated with the upgrade icon on my system tray . . . "Upgrade for Microsoft Windows" KB3035583 . . . and removed it.
Though apparently I will still need to skip this particular update by right-clicking and hiding it when installing other future updates . . . but at least the icon in the system tray is gone, I can sleep a little more peacefully.
Cakewalk by Bandlab, Cubase, RME Babyface Pro, Intel i7 3770K @3.5Ghz, Asus P8Z77-VPro/Thunderbolt, 32GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 660 Ti, 250 GB OS SSD, 2TB HDD samples, Win 10 Pro 64 bit, backed up by Macrium Reflect, Novation Impulse 61 Midi Key Controller, Tannoy Active Near Field Monitors, Guitars by Vantage, Gibson, Yamaki and Ovation.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/10 00:43:55
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"Upgrade for Microsoft Windows" KB3035583 . . . and removed it.
Now that's the best bit of info I've gleened from this forum for a long time... thanks.
I find it hillarious that I'm getting this message on an old Sony Vaio laptop that came with Vista 32 bit, I installed a cracked version of W7 64 because Vista had to die. I don't feel guilty as it does have a licence , just for a different version of the same OS.. Sony never released some of the drivers for W7 so my card reader and function keys are useless. And now Microsnoft is saying the laptop passed the test and is good to go for W10 ? What test? did it do something I'm unaware of while I was sleeping??
I don't think so.
So thanks but no thanks MS, this laptop will run on W7 until it dies a slow death.. that notification sucks and has to die.. .
I will upgrade my Windows 8.1 computer because it can't get worse it can oly get better. But I still have a strong preferance for W7. May it stay afloat for 10 more years...
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Sycraft
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/10 01:51:54
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Cactus Music
But I still have a strong preferance for W7. May it stay afloat for 10 more years...
It will continue to receive security patches for about 4.5 years. Security updates will stop January of 2020 for Windows 7.
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ampfixer
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/11 11:45:34
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I've found getting into Win 10 is like getting into a cold lake for a swim. A shocker at first, but once your in it for a bit it's not so bad.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/11 12:05:59
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I have have windows 10 on all my machines except my DAW. I like it. It's going nowhere near my DAW however (8.1 still) mainly because of hardware compatibility and the fact it's so new we are likely to see turbulence, esp with machines away from the bog standard office setup. Next year will be different hopefully.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/11 12:14:27
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ampfixer
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/11 20:09:38
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The A-Pro drivers seem to work pretty well in Win 10 and I've shelved my Roland interface in favour of a new Steinberg. When I replace the Roland KB it will be with anything other than a Roland unit. The Steinberg is supposed to have issues in WDM mode but I use ASIO. There are changes in Win 10 that I really like, eg. the task manager.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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mudgel
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 06:33:09
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Normally I. Would do a clean install but it's running so well I think I'll stick with the upgrade in place from 8.1 to 10.
Honestly I don't know what the fuss is. The OS is a place to where I use the software that matters. There's only a bit of the OS I play with and that's usually to do with file management and that's about it. I don't even see it very much once I'm in Sonar or Vegas etc.
I said somewhere else that there's always something I'm not too keen on in an OS. Win 10 is no different but neither was 8.1, 7, XP, 98SE, 95 yada yada yada. Right now any program that's getting major development is working on Win 10 so that's where I'm at.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Sycraft
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 15:19:39
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The fuss is mostly just silly people. It is partially people who just dislike change, which is a fairly normal human thing. The new OS is different so they don't like it by default, without trying it. New = bad and all that. It is also partially zealots who are trying to hate on MS. Every time Windows comes out there are some Linux and Mac heads around the web, some of them tech journalists, who spin the FUD train in to high gear to try and make MS look bad. Of course some people repeat their stuff without knowing any better.
It'll all settle down soon, since as you say there's no big deal. 10 is another OS, nothing special.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 15:47:44
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Sycraft
The fuss is mostly just silly people. It is partially people who just dislike change, which is a fairly normal human thing. The new OS is different so they don't like it by default, without trying it. New = bad and all that. It is also partially zealots who are trying to hate on MS. Every time Windows comes out there are some Linux and Mac heads around the web, some of them tech journalists, who spin the FUD train in to high gear to try and make MS look bad. Of course some people repeat their stuff without knowing any better.
It'll all settle down soon, since as you say there's no big deal. 10 is another OS, nothing special.
Hang on.. I much prefer Linux more than anything. I don't run Apple but I don't have anything against it. I also run Windows 8.1 and 10 which is fine. I really don't understand OS wars as much as I don't understand DAW wars, other than maybe poking for fun. They are all tools. I like Win10 but it's not going to upgrade my DAW environment until at least hardware compatibility is sorted and bugs get ironed out. That normally takes six months. That is fine by me,you aren't going to catch me moaning about it. I am not zealotted against any particular OS but I have my preferences. I will be happy to run Win10 across all my machines eventually I only have one OS partition to do a Win10 upgrade now. My dream though is to be able to run a DAW such as Sonar on Linux and dump Windows.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/14 15:57:15
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Sycraft
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 16:33:59
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I'm talking about the people who hate on Windows. When a new version of Windows comes, there are Linux zealots who go in to overdrive spreading Windows FUD. Doesn't mean every Linux user does, but there are plenty of zealots who do. They seem to think if they can complain loudly enough about it that it'll fail.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 18:35:21
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pwalpwal
i'd be interested to know what the changes were, for sonar 2015/x-x to become compatible, none of my other apps have done such a thing?
Dpi aware for starters, check here: https://msdn.microsoft.co.../desktop/hh749939.aspxOther benefits are portability and security. It also helps developers make the most of hardware. Earlier versions of Sonar would have had some of this already. In order to pass they must run a software parser to validate their code and pass. I note some software developers blatiently refuse to do this as they state it is just marketing and they don't see any benefits, when clearly (see link) there are. I say to them why don't you just run it through the bloody parser and find out. Sadly though they just keep repeating the same slogans locked into their ways. Then they say they will probably anyway and then I know they are full of BS.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/14 18:46:18
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ampfixer
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 23:34:05
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I also noticed this requirement.
"Do not block installation or app launch based on operating system version check"
See that Roland?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/14 23:42:53
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jih64
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/23 09:27:25
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Atsuko
Jeff, after the win 10 update, is your Delta 1010 working ok? Thanks.
Well finally the temptation was to much for me, most saying it doesn't work, some saying it does. I cloned the system drive on one of my music PC's, swapped it out, upgraded to Windows 10, and the Delta 1010 seems to work fine, at least so far so good, I don't really expect that to change, but I will see over the next couple of days putting it through it's paces.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/23 15:59:21
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Sycraft
The fuss is mostly just silly people. It is partially people who just dislike change, which is a fairly normal human thing. The new OS is different so they don't like it by default, without trying it. New = bad and all that. It is also partially zealots who are trying to hate on MS. Every time Windows comes out there are some Linux and Mac heads around the web, some of them tech journalists, who spin the FUD train in to high gear to try and make MS look bad. Of course some people repeat their stuff without knowing any better.
It'll all settle down soon, since as you say there's no big deal. 10 is another OS, nothing special.
I find there are many delusional Linux fans out there. There is no multimedia software that comes even close to what is available for Windows and Mac unless it was also available for those OS in the first place. That is what they fail to see and it's not as easy to run for most people when it comes to installation and drivers. I took a ride on the Linux train a few times and I really didn't want to put any time into it. I think MS did quite well with Windows 10 for legacy devices. I don't have to retire all of my sound cards. I think where people get unhappy is when there are major GUI changes in any software.
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jih64
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/23 19:22:40
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kitekrazy1
I think MS did quite well with Windows 10 for legacy devices. I don't have to retire all of my sound cards. I think where people get unhappy is when there are major GUI changes in any software.
I would agree that they have done a great job with support for older hardware. Absolutely stocked with my Delta 1010's working well. Also agree about the GUI changes, that now is the only thing holding me back, if I can find a happy medium, I'll be jumping ship. And as an added bonus, Cakewalks impending dropping of support for Windows 7 won't be an issue.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/24 05:40:21
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kitekrazy1
That is what they fail to see and it's not as easy to run for most people when it comes to installation and drivers.
I don't know what distribution you used or how long ago it was, but Ubuntu recognized all my devices inc Saffire Pro 40 upon installation. There is a control panel drivers section where you can directly download further drivers. There is also a software center where you can download and install whatever software you please. All of it is GUI based and simpler than windows IMHO. And updating Linux is really no different to windows update.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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johnkeel
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Re: Microsoft is killing me! Win 10 rant
2015/08/24 05:58:23
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I actually like Windows 10, wish it was a bit more clean like some linux distros, my other lap runs ElementaryOS, so you can imagine how clean and tidy i like it.
Windows 10 seems a good work platform so no problem, i will strip it down to my needs.
And btw, you can disable most of the crap you dont need. And when you are actually working, remember, disable network devices :P (those devices allow you to open facebook, and that´s a really bad procrastination service, specially for musicians).
Been using it with Sonar / Ableton plugged to my RME FF802, n0 problems. One thing is for sure, its a step up from Windows 8.1
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