audio engine stopping

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gswitz
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 06:51:50 (permalink)
µs): 1591.207216 Driver with highest DPC routine execution time: ndis.sys - Network Driver Interface Specification (NDIS), Microsoft Corporation


Network drivers can be disabled.

If you are using a laptop, disable your wireless card in device manager. You can also try disabling a regular network interface card, but wired connections are less commonly problematic because they use less power.

I usually also disable the battery charger. Or try just taking the battery out, booting and running latency Mon again.

There is a drivers tab in latency Mon that shows the problematic drivers. Sort the list descending and list the top ten or so for us and we will help identify what they are. If they can be disabled or there are newer drivers, we might be able to get you working on this computer.
post edited by gswitz - 2015/08/15 07:04:53

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#31
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 11:13:08 (permalink)
HighAndDry
thanks  onboard video is a problem  hmmm

 
Not with a modern build...  
HD4600 GPU is fine for straight audio work.
If you're doing video editing, you'll want a dedicated (higher-end) video card.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#32
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 11:21:56 (permalink)
The problem is the motherboard.
Swap that out... and the OP's problems are gone.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#33
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 12:18:25 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
The problem is the motherboard.
Swap that out... and the OP's problems are gone.


Sorry I don't see how you can jump to that conclusion at all for audio work on the basis of this thread. You certainly would not expect to see the audio engine stopping even on a fairly minimum configuration. In a lot of cases you just reinstall windows clean from scratch if it's a big issue.

I've configured many machines straight from the factory and most of them just need tweaking before they can work efficiently. Most of the time it's all the junk that has been pre-installed. Often you need to update the drivers, bios and firmware as well.

Cheers..
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/15 12:27:59

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#34
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 14:31:23 (permalink)
I'm not going to argue with you.
I've personally built hundreds of PCs specific for audio/video.
Swap out the motherboard... and the DPC Latency issue will be gone.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#35
mettelus
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 14:55:24 (permalink)
I apologize, as I have just gotten a moment to sit down and read through the LatencyMon data.
"Wdf01000.sys - Kernel Mode Driver Framework Runtime, Microsoft Corporation" is one of the called functions I mentioned and that is the autodetect feature of wi-fi, to disable that one, see my post here. That is the #1 latency offender, and is simply the "autodetect" feature enabled, that is not hardware-related.
 
You probably also have core parking enabled. Here is a link for the quickest way to disable (registry edit), and a video for checking/disabling can be found here.
 
A general post I made when I rebuilt my machine (which includes the above) can be found here. I was going to make up a detailed "tweak list" of what I did when I rebuilt this machine, but that was the closest I came to it.
 
 

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#36
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 15:19:30 (permalink)
Pretty sure the OP is knowledgeable about WiFi and its potential effect on DPC Latency.
 
I certainly would disable CPU Core Parking... but that wouldn't have a significant impact on DPC Latency.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#37
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 20:07:03 (permalink)
Thanks to everyone who has t4ried to help!! I really appreciate all the input.  I am probably going to return the motherboard and get one that is know to be better suited for audio.  I don't know why I even chose this one!!

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#38
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 20:07:15 (permalink)
ya.  I'm a dumb ass sometimes

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#39
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 20:07:23 (permalink)
ok frequently
 

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#40
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/15 22:03:40 (permalink)
Well I've got a 5 year old laptop (core duo, pretty crappy, under minimum specs for Platinum) and desktop with much less power than OP, motherboard rubbish compared to his, the engine never drops out, go figure. I strongly urge installing a clean version of Windows I suspect the situation will be completely different.. The last thing I would consider is hardware swap at this stage on the basis of what has been written in this thread.

Of course an upgrade is an upgrade, but I can guarantee his engine is not dropping out because of his motherboard specs.

Cheers.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/15 22:25:28

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#41
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 00:00:38 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
but I can guarantee his engine is not dropping out because of his motherboard specs.



Of course the audio engine wasn't dropping out because of the motherboard *specs*.  
 
The OP has swapped out the motherboard.
I let him tell the rest of the story.  

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#42
mettelus
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 00:03:10 (permalink)
LOL, hey Jim, I have not researched MBs specifically for a long time. Can you give insight on what makes the OP's MB questionable? (I honestly would never have jumped on the MB itself.)

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#43
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 01:26:08 (permalink)
Process of elimination... 
It was a stripped down build (only hardware necessary to run).
DPC Latency was thru the roof.
WiFi and Video were eliminated as culprits.
What's left that can cause such high DPC Latency?  Components/drivers for the motherboard
Granted it's not super common... but I've seen it a number of times thru the years.
post edited by Jim Roseberry - 2015/08/19 01:36:31

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#44
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 10:33:16 (permalink)
Sorry I'm totally lost on the logic, the assumption here is it has to be a hardware issue to start off with.
Anyway seems to me there's stuff been going on behind the scenes here and the thread has been abandoned.

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#45
mettelus
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 11:35:21 (permalink)
I am not going to dispute Jim's knowledge of hardware since he is much more up to speed than I am, but I admit I am hard-pressed to conclude any hardware "incapable." Sacrilege, I know, but even Realtek can be used for playback of audio without issues (just needs to be 16-bit... eek! CD-quality! ack, lol ).
 
Wdf01000.sys is a call to the Wi-Fi "Auto-detect" feature, and lit my LatencyMon up like a Christmas tree (even baking snaps into recorded tracks). I would very much assume the default settings on any Wi-Fi would be calling that guy, so even with a different MB, that needs to be disabled.
 

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#46
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 12:35:15 (permalink)
Doktor Avalanche
Sorry I'm totally lost on the logic, the assumption here is it has to be a hardware issue to start off with.
Anyway seems to me there's stuff been going on behind the scenes here and the thread has been abandoned.



You can hypothesize, guestimate, ponder, etc.   
Bottom line... new motherboard... and the problem is solved.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#47
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 12:41:09 (permalink)
mettelus
but even Realtek can be used for playback of audio without issues 



With DPC Latency as high as the OP was experiencing, you won't be able to effectively work with audio...
Doesn't matter what audio interface you're using... the speed of the CPU/etc.
 
The OP's problem has been solved.
There's nothing left to argue about.   
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#48
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 13:01:56 (permalink)
Yes a new motherboard made all the difference in the world.  I haven't even tweaked the bios yet.  I have already been working with sonar projects. Thanks Jim.  Yes I did consult Jim because I have used his services in the past and he has always been spot on. I just didn't want to spend more time than I already had so I decided to pay for a consulting session. 
   I am totally grateful for everyone's input.  Sincerely.  I appreciate all of you regardless of what side of the hardware  vs software you are on(or whatever you want to call it) Thanks again to all of  you!!!
post edited by HighAndDry - 2015/08/19 13:16:20

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#49
mettelus
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 13:10:06 (permalink)
Not arguing with you Jim, that would be a fool's errand . From my perspective is more to understand a piece of hardware being "bad"... to clarify... hardware may be limited (i.e., Realtek cannot record for crap), but is not "totally incapable."
 
Maybe is foolish, but in my mind all hardware is capable of performance to a "certain" degree. Not sure if that makes sense though?

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#50
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 16:37:40 (permalink)
mettelus
that would be a fool's errand

 
Yup that's my job 

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#51
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 17:59:08 (permalink)
mettelus
Not arguing with you Jim, that would be a fool's errand . From my perspective is more to understand a piece of hardware being "bad"... to clarify... hardware may be limited (i.e., Realtek cannot record for crap), but is not "totally incapable."
 



We're really not arguing at all...   
 
In the example of Realtek onboard audio, it can work completely glitch-free (albeit not particularly great fidelity or low-latency performance).
BUT, if the machine suffers from super high DPC Latency (not a result of the Realtek itself), it doesn't matter if you're running a Fireface UCX, Apollo, or SoundBlaster... the audio is going to glitch/dropout.
No amount of CPU will remedy the situation.  No audio interface will remedy the situation.
Increasing the ASIO buffer size might buy more time before the glitch/dropout, but again won't remedy it.
The issue has to be solved at the source.  In this case, it was the motherboard components/drivers.
With low/consistent DPC Latency, you can effectively run ANY audio interface that has stable drivers.
Those with top-notch drivers can be run (with substantial loads - glitch free) at the smallest ASIO buffer sizes.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#52
kevinwal
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/19 23:02:20 (permalink)
What motherboard make/model did the OP ultimately go with? I'm looking at an upgrade soon too.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/20 00:19:19 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
In the example of Realtek onboard audio, it can work completely glitch-free (albeit not particularly great fidelity or low-latency performance).
BUT, if the machine suffers from super high DPC Latency (not a result of the Realtek itself), it doesn't matter if you're running a Fireface UCX, Apollo, or SoundBlaster... the audio is going to glitch/dropout.
No amount of CPU will remedy the situation.  No audio interface will remedy the situation.
Increasing the ASIO buffer size might buy more time before the glitch/dropout, but again won't remedy it.
The issue has to be solved at the source.  In this case, it was the motherboard components/drivers.
With low/consistent DPC Latency, you can effectively run ANY audio interface that has stable drivers.
Those with top-notch drivers can be run (with substantial loads - glitch free) at the smallest ASIO buffer sizes.



We all know about DPC latency here. A formatted/clean install of windows might have resolved it (not a custom build OEM with bloatware and vapourware all over it), with firmware/driver updates everywhere. Followed by a sprinkling of windows update. Unless that happened first you can't possibly nail it down to hardware. These are the factors you are side stepping here. The OP was running a build configured by the OEM for business. The Intel management applications were installed for instance (just one example), I've seen them increase DPC latency as some of them hook into the drivers at hardware level, working similar to ASIO design principles... Only they are so poorly designed the PC latency deteriorates considerably.
 
Anyways...
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/20 00:41:22

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#54
Jim Roseberry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/20 08:38:40 (permalink)
Dr A, With all due respect...
While you're debating me on semantics, I solved the OP's issue. 
Plain and simple, he's on to getting work done.
If it's more palatable for you to think it was random happenstance... you keep thinking that.  
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
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#55
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/20 14:32:27 (permalink)
Yes   It is working well now.  Thanks Jim.  

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#56
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/21 00:21:59 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Dr A, With all due respect...
While you're debating me on semantics, I solved the OP's issue. 
Plain and simple, he's on to getting work done.
If it's more palatable for you to think it was random happenstance... you keep thinking that.  

 
I'm not demanding answers, but what has been written does seem rather evasive and the responses really didn't make much sense to me. Glad the OP is up and running anyway and yup guess this is a waste of time discussion now.

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#57
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/21 10:00:03 (permalink)


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#58
Doktor Avalanche
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/21 22:22:48 (permalink)
The dog doesn't need replacing. It's just on the wrong food.

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#59
HighAndDry
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Re: audio engine stopping 2015/08/23 13:01:58 (permalink)
Hey Doc.  I just want you to know that I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to try and help me.

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#60
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