What are all the Vocoder capable synths in Sonar since X1 Prod/Using Synths as FX? General

I know Pentagon I can be used as a proper Vocoder but I think I've seen mention of similar effects using the others. If Pent I is the only one I'll muck with that but I want to play with all my options if there are others for "true" vocoder action. I would actually really like to use Zeta for this if possible in some way.
 
Secondly... I know many of these synths can be used as effects (inserted into the FX bin) so I'd like to know if I can fake a Vocoder type sound or just generally create a synthesized version of my audio track that way.
 
I guess there is also the option of loading, say vocal verse into one of the samplers and mangling it that way but I'm not sure the limits of this (like how long of a sample can be loaded) or how it would be set up to play correctly and in time with actual tracks.
 
Essentially I have some vocal tracks. I want those audio tracks to play as they are BUT also have some kind of wacky synthesized versions playing alongside or coming in and out. I'm sure there are a million and one ways to approach this in Sonar but thought I would pick everyone's brains as to how they have mangle audio like this successfully.
 
Really I'm just looking for cool ideas to play with so anything goes.
 
I guess there is also the Loop Constructor that does crazy stuff too... and DSP FX... and Clip FX with a synth or bit crusher...
 
Oh... a list of Bit Crushers and other such tools might be interesting too.
 
Again... this is a totally open ended question about these types of techniques using included tools.
 
Cheers!

Thanks, scook. I was considering loading up GR for some of this too... and that thread does look like a good read.
 
I'm kind of going for a creepy, evil "hive" vocal so it will involve many layers of the same 2 or 3 tracks affected in various ways. Some raw and distorted, some "robotic" some pitch shifted... crap like that. It's really not "necessary" but I put my head into that so I could play around with vocal mangling in general.
 
Actually you brought up V-Vocal and that's another one I've really been wanting to play with and intend to on this. I've just never found a good reason to pull it out.
 
With Rapture and loading waves... is there a limit to the length of wave? I could definitely wreck things up in that but I'm not sure how that would work and keep it in sync with the song.
 
Like if I could load the entire wave (from start to finish of the song) then I could just put a MIDI note to trigger it and go nuts but I doubt that would work (the song is only a couple minutes but still).
 
As for Zeta... I love Zeta for the weird electronic stuff. I would love a way to route a track into it somehow. Might be a feature request.
 
Just rambling. Gonna be playing with this a bit over the next few days I think.
 
Thanks.

scook
No limit on wave size in Rapture. I have not tried a GB wave though.

That would be awesome. Thank you.
 
Even if I have to create an instance for each section of the vocals (and place a MIDI note there to trigger them) that is acceptable (I could just bounce/freeze/record into an Aux if it screws up my system).
 
Now I'm thinking about wave mangling tools... like bit crushing but maybe more flexible. I should play with the Loop Constructor some more. Bifilter has some whack stuff too (and an automatable bitcrusher IIRC).
 
Cheers... and I hope you've been well, scooker. You haven't been posting as much lately. :-/

I will definitely do that.
 
I think Cyclone might be another way to "hurt" these tracks. I've played with it before and it can get pretty nutty but I think I'd definitely have to trim down the clips for that. But those clips could be tossed in the cells and triggered at the right time though so it could work.
 
Thanks.