Again w/stuck notes in X3....

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jtmusicAnalog
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2016/02/06 10:15:00 (permalink)

Again w/stuck notes in X3....

Well, damn, I am back again with the same issue - stuck notes in Sonar X3e.
Things were going fine until I added more MIDI-to-VSTi tracks to the song I had been working on all through this.
I'm beginning to think it may be:
1) my old MIDI controller, the USB1.1 Oxygen 61
and/or
2) it seems random Sus Pedal (CC64) "ons" are being generated somewhere in ghost-land (or perhaps from the Oxygen controller,) along with random notes and patch-change data (which has been happening as of late.)
 
I have the option to always Record MIDI turned OFF, and these random events do not show up in the Events List.
The reason I suspect random Sustain "ons" is that, when I stop playback and get the stuck/sustaining notes, I hit the Sustain Pedal on my Oxygen controller, and the notes do stop.
 
So, here's what I am proposing doing:
Start this Song over from scratch, load in the original MIDI tracks, all with the Oxygen Controller completely disconnected. If I am able to add more than the 3 or 4 MIDI-to-VSTi tracks, and I don't get these "randomly generated" events, I think I can safely conclude that the problem is in fact the old Controller. (Fortunately, I have a second MIDI Controller I can add in to my setup, but I'd prefer not to do that, being it is only a 4-octave keyboard and I always prefer the 5-octaves...)
 
Any thoughts or advice????
Thanks in advance!
-JT
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 10:40:50 (permalink)
    Good logical troubleshooting, JT. I would caution against the pre-conclusion that not being able to duplicate the symptom definitively isolates the cause. At least, not until you've replicated the exact same scenario again WITH the controller and the problem comes back.
     
    In my experience, stuck notes have been caused by anything BUT a keyboard controller. Most often, it's either been due to sloppy scripting in a Kontakt library or a mechanical failure of the microswitch within the sustain pedal. Occasionally it's been a MIDI buffer issue, where the buffer was either too small or there was too much DPC overhead for the I/O to the MIDI interface to keep up. You might also want to increase your audio driver's buffer size to see if there is a correlation.
     
    I'd also try substituting another library or synth in the original project and see if the stuck notes persist, and if they're always sticking at the same place. If it's intermittent, then the soft instrument is probably not at fault. If it's consistent, then that reinforces your theory that there are missing note-off events in the MIDI itself.
     
     


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    Anderton
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 10:46:49 (permalink)
    IIRC, there WAS some bug with the sustain pedal controller that was fixed. I forget the exact circumstances under which it manifested itself, but it was something that was first mentioned in the forums and fixed because people confirmed it or provided a recipe to reproduce (I don't recall), so maybe search will turn up something. I think it was fixed in SONAR 2015. Maybe someone can confirm?

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    jtmusicAnalog
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 11:04:46 (permalink)
    Thanks for your input!
    In response, it is not the VSTi itself, as the stuck notes occurred in different VSTi's......
    And they always happened when I hit spacebar to Stop playback, didn't matter where in the song it was.
    I did increase the MIDI Playback buffer size to 1000ms long ago....
     
    ALL that being said, here's where I am at right now:
    I did rebuild the song from scratch, added the MIDI parts and VSTi's, all with the Oxygen Controller completely disconnected. All tracks enabled (4 so far) and I am NOT getting any problems, such as stuck notes when I hit Stop, or randomly generated Events.
     
    Well, I spoke too soon... the next thing I did was, for each VSTi instrument, I set the MIDI channel input from "ALL" to the specific channel of the MIDI track for that particular Channel. And, voila', when I hit Stop, the stuck notes reappeared!!!
    I was about to conclude that it may very well be the Oxygen Controller creating the problem, but now I'm second-guessing that, as it has been disconnected during this test, and the stuck notes have reappeared!
     
    Where to now??
     
    (update - I reloaded the previous Save of the Song, where MIDI Channel input on the VSTi's were set to "ALL", and now it is not giving me Stop & stuck-notes issues....)
    Hmmmm..........
    post edited by jtmusicAnalog - 2016/02/06 11:31:04
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    scook
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 11:43:35 (permalink)
    Anderton
    IIRC, there WAS some bug with the sustain pedal controller that was fixed. I forget the exact circumstances under which it manifested itself, but it was something that was first mentioned in the forums and fixed because people confirmed it or provided a recipe to reproduce (I don't recall), so maybe search will turn up something. I think it was fixed in SONAR 2015. Maybe someone can confirm?


    I believe this is the original report http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3030997 and some workarounds for X3 on page 3 http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3108848 and http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3108868. This bug is fixed in the new SONAR.
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    brundlefly
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 12:28:39 (permalink)
    IIRC, the sustain bug mostly or only affected Ivory because of the way they handle it. Also the problem was sustain offs not being processed during playback; having Zero Controllers When Play Stops would still work on stopping the transport.
     
    It's very odd that changing to a specific input and channel causes more problems than All Inputs - Omni; normally, it would be the other way around.
     
    jtmusicAnalog
    ...I hit the Sustain Pedal on my Oxygen controller, and the notes do stop.
     

     
    Is the above still the case, and does it matter how the track input is set?
     
    Is the keyboard connected by MIDI DIN cable to your interface or using USB MIDI?
     
    And are you relying on Always Echo Current MIDI Track in preferences, or manually forcing Input Echo ON?



     
     
     

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    jtmusicAnalog
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/06 14:27:53 (permalink)
    OK.... SO:
    Ditched the M-Audio Oxygen 61 keyboard controller, hooked up a MIDI controller to the MIDI input on the Tascam 144 MkII, and played around with various VSTi's for about 45 minutes. Had no troubles at all (whereas I tried doing this with the Oxygen USB Controller, and various problems did occur, including the keyboard would simply stop working.)
    Before I consider the matter closed (and assume I'm better off without that Oxygen connected), I'm going to create some various MIDI-VSTi tracks, check playback, etc.
    Will keep you updated....
     
    And the verdict is in - I think I'm good for now (and hopefully I shan't be back a third time with issues...)
    post edited by jtmusicAnalog - 2016/02/06 15:03:28
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    jpetersen
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    Re: Again w/stuck notes in X3.... 2016/02/07 08:02:34 (permalink)
    If the controller or sustain pedal is generating stuck notes/sustain downs, they should be clearly visible in Sonar.
    The notes are in plain sight and the sustain pedal CCs are in events.
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