BeepsterMy point was "DISABLE THEM" doesn't say anything. I don't need to see a video of MIDI Loop Recording. I know the workflow. I know what you mean. I know what you want and described ways to acheive it right now AND made suggestions as to how Cakewalk could implement what you want.
 
To imply that I'm an idiot for not being able to read your mind with your repitition of the vague statement "DISABLE THEM" is irksome and why I've been ignoring it until now.
 
If you want it to work in a specific way then YOU need to articulate it and in a way that makes sense/will fit into the current program design without breaking everything else.
 
It can be done. I have ideas for it myself. Articulate your ideas to start a discussion about it. Make a Feature Request with those ideas so the Bakers can see it.
 
"Disable them!" does not help you acheive your goal.
 
I WANT you to get what you need to work. It might benefit my own workflow but good gawd, man... explain yourself so there's a chance the ideas can be considered and implemented.
 
And again... I KNOW WHAT MIDI LOOP RECORDING IS! I know how to do it in SPlat!!!
 
It's not hard but yeah... it could be improved.

 
Ok.  I'll sit here and write a thesis since you seem to not understand EXACTLY what I am talking about.  

Let me start at the beginning.  Back in the late 90's when I first began to venture in to the art of midi composition,  musicians didn't have the plethora of options that many of us take for granted today.  At that time,  many musicians used hardware sequencers such as the acclaimed MPC 3000 {See Photo "A"} to sequence all of their midi devices.  



Photo "A"

The MPC 3000 was actually very limited as a midi sequencer by today's standards.  It could only hold 20 songs at one time.  It could only hold 99 sequences at one time.  It was limited to 99 tracks,  and it only had a 75,000 note capacity.   Today's computer based Digital Audio Workstations are only limited by their hardware which is why most of them claim to have "unlimited" audio tracks,  midi notes,  etc.

With all of it's limitations,  the MPC 3000 was actually a very popular midi sequencer.  There are some who claim that it had a certain "swing"  which hasn't quite been duplicated even with today's high powered computer based DAW's.  That claim is often disputed,  but no matter what side of that argument you were on,  the MPC 3000's reputation as a rock solid midi sequencer was never in question.  In 2016,  there are many MPC 3000's still in use for it's sequencer and it's "crunchy" and "warm" sounding filters and DAC.  Another reason that MPC 3000's are still in use today are because of their simple yet powerful workflow.  

The MPC 3000 came equipped with two midi input ports,  and four midi output ports {See Photo "B"},  which made it very easy to connect and control all of you midi devices.



Photo "B"
 
The MPC only had 16 pads and 4 banks,  but it was very often used to sequence keyboards because of it's tightly integrated yet simplistic workflow.  The MPC's workflow consisted of composing sequences which could then be compiled together to create songs.  Each sequence could be set to whatever length of "bars" you wanted (up to 99).  The sequencer would automatically loop back to the beginning of the sequence once the end of the final bar of the sequence was played.    This is what's commonly referred to as "midi loop recording".   There are a few criteria that the MPC 3000's midi loop recording had that some modern day sequencers just don't seem to follow.  Let's take a look at how the MPC 3000 midi loop recording worked.

To record a sequence,  you simply had to hit the record button,  and then hit the play button.  The MPC gave you a 1 bar "count in" and then it began recording.   The MPC's sequencer resolution was 96 ppq.  All of your midi data would be automatically quantized to whatever settings you wanted.  This was done on it's "Timing Correct" page.  The MPC would record your performance and once the end of the sequence was reached,  it would automatically start at the beginning again (midi loop recording).    Once the loop began again,  you would hear your performance.  If you wanted to add to it,  you simply played some more notes on the next pass.  The newly recorded midi data would be merged in to the existing sequence as long as you were in record mode.  If you weren't in record mode,  and you were playing the sequence,  you could actually "punch in" and add notes with the "OVER DUB" button.  When using the OVER DUB button,  all of your newly composed midi data would still be merged with the sequence.  There was no "track layering".  There were no "take lanes".  All of the midi data that was added in any subsequent pass of the sequencer while in record mode was always automatically merged to the sequence.  It's always consolidated.  You still had the ability to edit each individual midi note for pitch,  velocity, and note length.  You could also delete individual midi notes,  but you NEVER had to dig through any "track layers" or "take lanes" to do so.   
 
There are many modern day DAW's that can record midi data in the same fashion as the MPC as far as merging midi data in to one consolidated sequence,  or clip.   From my own personal experience,  I can assure you that Ableton Live,  Presonus Studio One 3,  Native Instruments Maschine, Tracktion Corporation T6,  and Propellerhead Reason 8 all have the capability.  Sonar used to have this capability.  Somewhere along the line,  this was lost.   I'm not exactly sure what version they scrapped it in favor of it's current "Take Lanes" approach,  but no matter what your settings are in Sonar,  it's still creating "Take Lanes" instead of truly merging midi data in to an existing clip while loop recording.  

In Sonar,  even if you set: 
1.) Recording Mode to "Sound on Sound"  
2.) Loop Recording to "Store Takes in a Single Track"  and 
3.) Uncheck "Create New Lanes on Overlap"
 
Sonar will still create new Take Lanes.  You can visibly see them in the Arrangement because the last "pass" will be the only one that is visible in the Arrangement window.  The other "Takes" are sort of "hidden" underneath which gives the initial appearance of missing midi data in the arrangement window. Now,   I'll admit that the midi edit window will show consolidated midi data,  but Sonar forces you to use the edit window to see what's really going on,  unless you take the time to go in and consolidate all of your "Take Lanes".  I think that Cakewalk forcing you to work like this is unacceptable.   There should be a way that you can simply record midi data in loop mode,  or overdub that automatically merges and consolidates any newly recorded midi data to existing data without the need to manually select,  flatten and consolidate the mess that's created by "Take Lanes",  and the arrangement window should reflect this consolidated midi data without the need to open the midi edit window. There are simply too many other DAW options available, for you to work like Cakewalk forces you to by not having this simple functionality.   This is how midi sequencers have always worked.  This isn't anything new.  

This is what I mean when I say I want to be able to simply "Disable Take Lanes".    

I'm not against "Take Lanes" if someone wants to use them.  I don't have a problem with that.  I just want to be able to "Disable Take Lanes".  This may not seem like a big deal to some users,  and I get that,  but it's a big deal to me.  It should at least be an option.  

Is that explanation thorough enough?  

Are you not entertained??????  {See Photo "C"}



Photo "C"

PS: I originally came into this thread to help Joey with a relatively easily resolved issue (but we don't know the answer because maybe we scared the dude off). I got engaged with Lanes/Comping complaints and as usual, because I've used them extensively in my session work and own weirdo compositions, thought I could shed some light on how they can be used effectively based on my experiences and even bent them and did experiments with them to accomodate the desired workflows of others.
 
If I'm coming across as rude or arrogant my apologies but it is purely in the interest of giving people the info they need to get things done. I would have bailed a while ago if it weren't for a couple people telling me they are figuring some crap out because of my rambling pontifications.
 
I've been ignoring some of my own work for this.

And now in the interest of forum harmony and not attracting the inevitable lookyloos and trolls this post goes *POOF*
 
 

I didn't read most of the posts in this thread (I don't like unnecessarily long posts), and can only offer two realistic solutions, since disabling Take lanes isn't possible (and it's unlikely to be possible at least for the next one or two years).
 
1. The "Create New Lanes on Overlap" option not working is probably a bug. I suggest you report it using Problem Report Form. If it's indeed a bug, CW should fix it.

2. Directly loop-recording to the lane (by arming the lane, not the track) with the Sound on Sound recording mode can at least prevent the program from creating additional lanes (althouh you still need to bounce all the clips/passes recorded to that single lane). But the issue is that you cannot hear the previous pass(es) while loop-recording. This may also be a bug (worth reporting).

i don't know, i use Record Mode "comping" & i record each "take" on a separate track so that no take lanes are created, only tracks.  i realize this goes against what Sonar's comping is all about, but i feel safe doing it this way & don't have to worry about my audio disappearing

tenfoot
I am a big fan of take lanes now,  but early in their release they did have some quirks that I think may have put people off.  This and people never reading the manual to learn to use them properly could well be why some hold them in a bad light. 

i know i am one of those who did not RTFM to learn take lanes correctly . . . but i was busy!

Yeah, me too, experienced a disastrous loss of a whole bunch of audio.  After which I made this note in my mixing notebook:  MORE THAN ONE COMP ON ONE TRACK IS DANGEROUS!  Since then, as alluded to above, I don't "flatten" or do anything to these lanes/tracks, but simply cobble them together to get the best overall take I can assemble, and send their output to an aux-track, and record it all as a new track.  Simple.  No Kablooey.

I've been putting together a vid "series" about comping but have gotten distracted by some other junk. I'll post it when it's ready. Hopefully it'll explain how to navigate Lanes and the Comp Tool efficiently.
 
As far as audio disappearing after performing multiple comps in a single track... I have NEVER had that happen and I do it all the time.

jonboper
Recording multiple takes into one track, has been a part of Sonar since...Sonar 8? X1?
 
The fact that the behavior of those takes now requires a video series to understand is ridiculous.

 
Hey Jonboper. It's great that Beeps is going to the trouble of doing the vids, and I have no doubt they will be very helpful,  but it is not really true to say that you NEED a video to learn take lanes and comping. It is one of those features that seems impossibly confusing if you jump right in expecting everything to work the same as previous versions,  but a little reading and you will be comping like a champ in no time!  Absolutely everything you need to know is on Pages 468 - 499 of the Sonar User Guide pdf, and there is not much on each page so it doesn't take long at all to get through.  I too was infuriated by take lanes when I first tried to use them.  Now I wouldn't be without them. 

tenfoot

jonboper
Recording multiple takes into one track, has been a part of Sonar since...Sonar 8? X1?
 
The fact that the behavior of those takes now requires a video series to understand is ridiculous.

Absolutely everything you need to know is on Pages 468 - 499 of the Sonar User Guide pdf, and there is not much on each page so it doesn't take long at all to get through.

You mean the Sonar Reference Guide, not the User guide.
 
I think you're understating the hidden complexity here. Things that don't get explicitly covered in the guide because if you don't have the specific use case of "I have multiple takes of the same performance and I am comping the whole track out of them", then the guide doesn't acknowledge you. Nor does it deal with the hidden pitfalls. eg.

• You record measures 1-20, then later record measures 19-40, with a small and deliberate overlap. Your first take gets truncated if you're in Comping mode, even though 'comping' is not the intention here.
• You record a verse and a chorus separately. You comp the verse, flatten comp. Now all your chorus takes are muted. There are several ways to dig yourself out of that problem, each of them painful. And when you comp the chorus, it'll mute your old comped verse! It's like playing whack-a-mole with muted comp sections. The new 'rules' say you must only comp once, once you've recorded everything, and you must do it for the whole track. This is not user-friendly.
• You drag a 3 measure clip into a take lane over the top of a 2 measure clip by accident, and then drag it to where you really meant it to be. What you might not have noticed is that you've now destroyed your 2 measure clip. (A less catastrophic version exists where the 2 clips merely overlap; at least you can slip-edit it back later when you realise your error.)
• There are some new and fun bugs (take lane mute states don't always return to how they were before when you use Undo, drag and drop to take lanes seems to be a lucky dip regarding where things end up)

On the whole I can't see that the Take Lanes and their interaction with the Comping record mode are anything other than a step backwards from the simpler but more reliable Layers.

jonboper
Recording multiple takes into one track, has been a part of Sonar since...Sonar 8? X1?
 
The fact that the behavior of those takes now requires a video series to understand is ridiculous. I used track layers to A/B takes, which was easy enough to do with the Solo and Mute buttons. Track layers were an amazing addition when they happened - I loved them. Now? Shaking my head.

Just going to quickly point out I'm not promising any material I come up with will ever make you or anyone entirely happy with Lanes... just some techniques I've developed that goes beyond the official documentation and vids. There is of course always going to be a matter of personal taste/preference involved but hopefully (if I ever get around to finishing them) it'll help some people get around them easier.
 
That said... if you want to a/b Lanes or specific lane sections I can think of two methods that might help.
 
1) Use the Solo buttons on the Take Lane controls. To do this you would have to make sure that any clips you want to compare are unmuted. So if you intend to do this simply select all the clips you want to compare (you can select the clips themselves by using Shift + Left Click, or Lasso select, or Ctrl + Left Clip for one clip at a time or to remove clips from the selection group OR... and this would actually be the best if you have multiple clip segments in the same lane you want to audition... use the Take Lanes Control area selection which will select all clips in the Lane. If you use the Lane selection option you can of course also use Shift or Ctrl + Left Click to select multiple clips... essentially there are a TON of ways to select so I just wanted to make sure you had most of the options). Once you have all the desired clips selected simply press K on your keyboard and they will all become unmuted (make sure you don't include any already unmuted clips in your selection or I think that one will end up muted). Then just use the Take Lanes Solo button like you would have with Layers (you can only solo one lane at a time so it acts like an automatic a/b control). Once you are done just reverse the process by selecting all clips you want muted and then pressing K again.
 
tl;dr
Select all Clips or Lanes you want to audition except for any ones already unmuted
Press K to unmute all the selected clips
Use the Lane solo buttons to a/b that takes.
Select and press K again to mute the clips.
*Note: Also be sure to "Unsolo" the soloed lane otherwise material in other lanes will remain inaudible no matter what.
 
2) With the Smart Tool simply click in the bottom half of a muted clip you want to hear. This will mute any audible clips in the same range (except in a few situations that I won't go into) and solo the desired clip. So to a/b ANY clip in the same range you just click in the bottom half of the clip. That's the Comping Tool doing it's thing and the process is called "Promote". It's really just an automatic "Clip Solo + Mute All Others in Range" action.
 
Cheers.

Great video! 👍