timg11
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Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
I searched the forum, and it looks like the last time this was discussed was almost 10 years ago. Has anything in ASIO changed over 10 years? I need to use two ASIO audio devices at the same time (one device for input, another for output). With Sonar Platinum in 2016, I still see the first checkbox on one device causing all selection options for any other devices to gray out. 10 years ago, the Windows drivers of that time were unable to provide low latency operation, so ASIO was the only real choice. I have continued to use ASIO because it works fine, but I do run into the multiple device issue often. Is ASIO effectively obsolete? With no advancement over 10 years, I'm guessing it is. So everyone is now using WDM/KS are you are happy with it?
Sonar Platinum Windows 10 64 bit, Presonus 24.4.2AI interface, Korg Kronos2 73
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John
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 12:59:29
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Actually 10 years ago WDM was out and it did provide multi channel low latency recording and playback. WDM came out with Windows ME. ASIO is a Steinberg protocol. It never supported multi cards. That has not changed.
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Zargg
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 13:16:05
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Hi. There are a few companies that produces Audio Interfaces that allows working with more with that one ASIO interfaces at the time. RME is one of them. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Resonant Serpent
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 13:24:24
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You can use up to four Lynx interfaces together using ASIO. Lynx Two cards are so cheap I'm going to get a couple more. Should have me set for a while. I've never given WDM a real shot. It may do what you want.
A deep chesty bawl echoes from rimrock to rimrock, rolls down the mountain, and fades into the far blackness of the night. It is an outburst of wild defiant sorrow, and of contempt for all the adversities of the world. - Aldo Leopold
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John
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 13:29:36
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Zargg71 Hi. There are a few companies that produces Audio Interfaces that allows working with more with that one ASIO interfaces at the time. RME is one of them. All the best.
Well this has been true for a long time but its only due to the company making those products making it possible. ASIO is not meant to handle more than one audio device. Also they have to be from the same company. WDM has no such limitation.
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Zargg
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 13:34:41
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John
Zargg71 Hi. There are a few companies that produces Audio Interfaces that allows working with more with that one ASIO interfaces at the time. RME is one of them. All the best.
Well this has been true for a long time but its only due to the company making those products making it possible. ASIO is not meant to handle more than one audio device. Also they have to be from the same company. WDM has no such limitation.
That is true. Just wanted to say it is doable.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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tenfoot
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 13:58:30
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Zargg71 Hi. There are a few companies that produces Audio Interfaces that allows working with more with that one ASIO interfaces at the time. RME is one of them. All the best.
We can just add that to our very long list list of good reasons to own an RME interface Ken:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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jpetersen
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 14:51:36
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I use ASIO4All and regularly run up to 3 Tascam interfaces simultaneously, namely: 1. US-1641 2. US-1800 3. US-16x08 That gives me 44 inputs and 14 outputs. The timing of the individual interfaces is slightly shifted w.r.t. each other, so I have to adjust manually afterwards, a task that takes a couple of minutes. The bass drum serves as a clapper board.
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John
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 15:15:18
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jpetersen I use ASIO4All and regularly run up to 3 Tascam interfaces simultaneously, namely: 1. US-1641 2. US-1800 3. US-16x08 That gives me 44 inputs and 14 outputs. The timing of the individual interfaces is slightly shifted w.r.t. each other, so I have to adjust manually afterwards, a task that takes a couple of minutes. The bass drum serves as a clapper board.
ASIO4All should be avoided if you can. It is not ASIO. What it is is a wrapper for WDM. All it does is make hosts think you have an ASIO driver when you really don't. This was important for running Cubase back in the day when it did not come with a generic ASIO driver. If you had a card that didn't have an ASIO driver and many did not support ASIO, Cubase did not support WDM. It only supported MME. You lost all your multiple inputs and outs. MME supports. only one stereo pair. Another reason I like Sonar it will use any any driver.
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timg11
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 15:47:08
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Thanks for all the helpful responses. I tried switching over to WDM/KS. It seems to work, and the driver reports low latency. However there are two problems with my setup. 1) Using ASIO, my Presonus 24.4.2AI mixer is a 40 input, 26 output interface in Sonar. When changing to WDM, it becomes an 8 in 8 out interface  . That appears to be a Presonus issue. 2) Although I can add my secondary (Focusrite) interface in Sonar and use it simultaneously with the Presonus under WDM, the Focusrite channels are at the top of the list. All my existing projects are then using the wrong interface. I can't seem to find the mapping function to correct that - it is not changed with Friendly Names.
Sonar Platinum Windows 10 64 bit, Presonus 24.4.2AI interface, Korg Kronos2 73
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jpetersen
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 17:17:53
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2016/04/10 17:47:05
John ASIO4All should be avoided if you can. It is not ASIO. What it is is a wrapper for WDM. All it does is make hosts think you have an ASIO driver when you really don't. This was important for running Cubase back in the day when it did not come with a generic ASIO driver. If you had a card that didn't have an ASIO driver and many did not support ASIO, Cubase did not support WDM. It only supported MME. You lost all your multiple inputs and outs. MME supports. only one stereo pair. Another reason I like Sonar it will use any any driver.
I know what ASIO4All does. It has always worked fine for me. Sonar has a bug preventing it from working with the WDM drivers supplied with the Tascam US-16x08. Every other DAW and audio program I have work fine with the Tascam WDMs and this includes ASIO4All, so the only way of getting Sonar to work is over ASIO4All. The bug is confirmed by other members of this forum and I have reported it. ASIO4All has been a great help to me for many years and in many situations.
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pwalpwal
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/10 17:32:39
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+1 for asio4all here, too, no trubs over many years use
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Zargg
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 03:34:14
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tenfoot
Zargg71 Hi. There are a few companies that produces Audio Interfaces that allows working with more with that one ASIO interfaces at the time. RME is one of them. All the best.
We can just add that to our very long list list of good reasons to own an RME interface Ken:)
Agree
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 05:24:24
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/04/11 06:11:29
By definition, there can be only one active ASIO device. Multiple units can be installed... but only one active. The way some companies get around this issue: Allow additional audio interface/s to show up as simply more I/O ports using the same ASIO driver. Note that even if you could run multiple ASIO devices simultaneously, you'd need to have all devices sharing a single digital-clock. Otherwise, tracks recorded/played across the units would drift apart over time. Having multiple (similar/identical) audio interfaces show up as more I/O under a single ASIO driver is an elegant solution to what might otherwise be a PITA (clocking/etc). RME audio interfaces have always been great performers. Even back prior to the original PCI Hammerfall cards...
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subtlearts
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 06:25:42
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This is tangential to the ASIO issue, but I use an E-Mu 1616m, with E-Mu's Patchmix software. It's actually an old Cardbus card with a breakout box. I bought it 10 years ago to use with a laptop rig, liked the feature set, and the sound quality has alwas seemed fine, so I bought a $10 PCI to Cardbus adapter to use it on my desktop, which is also long in the tooth. Despite this arcane hardware setup, and being long discontinued and unsupported, it works perfectly under W10 64-bit. I can run Sonar on the ASIO driver, and standard Windows audio drivers simultaneously, to run Sound Forge or whatever, and pipe audio between them in complex configurations, in real time, with no issues whatsoever. I can even use (fairly awful) real-time DSP effects that run on the card, though I generally don't, because they're fairly awful. I can't believe it still works after all these years, but it ain't broke, so I don't fix it!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 06:35:02
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Does patchmix still work on W10? I have an 1820M, not sure if that's the same software version. But yeah being able to run and mix (and reroute!) both Windows and ASIO audio is a great feature of that card. My RME UCX/Totalmix is even more flexible but I really like that E-MU Patchmix lets you reroute Windows audio into an ASIO input so easily. I use it to sample off YouTube, or any other app generating audio really.
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subtlearts
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 06:44:24
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Sanderxpander Does patchmix still work on W10? I have an 1820M, not sure if that's the same software version. But yeah being able to run and mix (and reroute!) both Windows and ASIO audio is a great feature of that card. My RME UCX/Totalmix is even more flexible but I really like that E-MU Patchmix lets you reroute Windows audio into an ASIO input so easily. I use it to sample off YouTube, or any other app generating audio really.
Well it works a charm here, I can't vouch for anyone else's setup. I think I'm using the last drivers they released, in like 2010, I remember something about a beta, it may be that. All I know is they're almost certainly never going to be updated, but they still work somehow, it's crazy. If/when it finally grinds to a halt, I'll be sad, but satisfied... I've also used it to record audio from youtube and other sources, though I try to keep it to legal applications...
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bitflipper
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 10:31:37
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ASIO's initial popularity was mainly because it allowed you to bypass Windows' built-in mixer. When Microsoft designed its intrinsic audio support, it wasn't thinking about music production, but rather the other 99.99% of applications dubbed "multimedia". Which was perfectly reasonable. Nobody cares about a few milliseconds of added latency when playing video games, showing corporate slide shows or watching porn. ASIO came along to fill a need for an audio subsystem that incurred as little overhead as possible. As home recording and Windows-based audio production took off in popularity, the number of users grew to a point where Microsoft could justify revamping their audio support to accommodate power users. WASAPI was their answer to ASIO. It's nearly as efficient as ASIO but far more sophisticated. It can be either exclusive like ASIO or shared like DirectX. So why is ASIO still around? Because WASAPI is Windows-exclusive. It's much easier for vendors to write ASIO drivers for both PC and Mac platforms in one go. When I had a MOTU interface, it was obvious that the company's background is Mac- and ASIO-oriented. That's when I started using ASIO, because MOTU's ASIO driver was better than their WDM/KS driver. ASIO works great with my current Focusrite product, so I'm sticking with it (ain't broke). It's likely that some interfaces still do better with ASIO because those companies have a longer history with it. ASIO4All, btw, is not really an ASIO driver. It's WDM under the hood. Its purpose is to provide a faux-ASIO driver for interfaces that don't provide one of their own. Should be a last-resort option when nothing else works. (Correction: second-to-last option; MME always works.)
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 12:28:03
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There have been a few cases where ASIO4All gets better latency than the driver the manufacturers provide. Mainly with cheaper end devices, e.g. the Focusrite 2i2 (or so I've read). Even though this is a WDM wrapper, not all DAWs support WDM. This is not an endorsement for ASIO4All btw, it wreaked havoc on my system even when I wasn't using it. I would definitely recommend using it as a last resort.
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Starise
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 12:45:02
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When I attempted to use WASAPI drivers with my most recent computer it only identified half of my interface inputs. I'm using a Presonus Firetube Studio. Asio identified all inputs and works decent. I concluded that for older hardware Asio was the way to go. I don't see it going away anytime soon. Nothing spectacular in terms of latency because my latency is set automatically in my interface control panel and locked so I can't play with it, probably based on a determination made by the software based on number of drivers and return time. If I played with mostly midi every day I would have already replaced it for this reason.
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wst3
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 16:49:01
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I've been using ASIO, WDM and WASAPI recently as I try to sort out Windows 10 and my hardware. Right now I'm using WDM with an UA Apollo Twin USB, a Presonus 1818VSL, and a Line6 PodXT Pro, in Windows 10. So far so good, low latency, stable clock, and all the I/O is present and accounted for.
That's not something I could do with ASIO in Windows. It is possible with ASIO in MacOS... so it must be possible<G>!
And this is distinct and different from various vendor's solutions. UA, MOTU, and RME all have multiple device ASIO solutions.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/11 17:27:10
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MacOS uses CoreAudio, not ASIO.
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kevinwal
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Re: Simultaneous use of two ASIO audio devices - 10 year persepective
2016/04/12 02:18:08
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From the nice-to-know department, Microsoft has invested quite a lot of effort in improving WDM/WASAPI performance and have a stated goal of ultimately achieving performance parity with ASIO. The current Windows 10 implementation purports to provide "near ASIO" performance but Microsoft still admits that ASIO is still the most performant driver model for Windows for the time being and will likely remain the preferred driver model for pro and prosumer shops for some time. For me, it's plenty good enough on my hoary ten year old MOTU 8pre, but YMMV based on the interface manufacturer's quality of driver support and the DAW host's adoption of some new WASAPI opt-in audio stack features.
Kevin Walsh My latest tunes are at Reverbnation, please give a listen! EVGA X58 Classified III, 24GB Kingston RAM, i7/970 6 core256GB SSD, 2TB HDWindows 10 Build 10586, Sonar Platinum, 2016.03MOTU 8Pre Interface
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