Vilovilo
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Strange Behavior on my System
Hi!
A post to mention something strange which is happening since a short while ,but I am not able to deliver really accurate informations.
When I insert a Vst3 plug-in in a bus within a project I get an instant crash.
So as far as there have been quite a lot of updates recently on my system( i.e Win 10 2011 update and last sonar Platinium ) I did try some roll-back but no improvements.
The strange thing is that if I insert a Vst 2 plug-in first then a Vst 3 everything is working fine.
My system is quite old: Dell precision T1600 ,16 g ram,Echo layla 3G with Win8 drivers,but I don't know If the issue lies here because everything worked quite fine until now and even now after inserting a Vst 2 prior to a Vst3 plug-in( but sometime I forget the process.)
I had some suspicion towards certain brands but the crash occurs with whatever Vst3 plug-in I insert even with Cakewalk Ca2A which is one of the most reliable one I could think about.
Thanks for clues and sorry for being somewhat unclear.
All the best.
Olivier
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JonD
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 10, 16 5:06 PM
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Maybe try a reset and rescan of VSTs....
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 11, 16 3:44 AM
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Thank you,
I tried your suggestion but the problem is somewhere else.
It looks as if it was related to this specific project which might be corrupted.
Anyway I will carry on investigating and if I discover something relevant I will let it know here.
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 11, 16 8:23 AM
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If you post a link or PM me a minidump of the crash It may shed some light on the nature of the issue.
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 11, 16 12:38 AM
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Hi Noel ,
Thank you fot answering,
I have sent a minidump in the problem reporter.
I recently installed RX5 and it might be related at some point because if I insert one of the plug-in of Izotope (VST3) things are going OK and then I can insert other Plugs and everything is fine.
If I insert first another Plug-in I get the instant crash.
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 11, 16 7:36 PM
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Can you list the CWBRN number? Thats the only way I have to reference it.
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 12, 16 2:21 AM
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Hi Noel,
Sorry for being slow. It is a matter of local time zone..
CWBRN-52770.
Thank you.
The more I look at it the more I think it is a conflict between RX5 and the Layla 3G .
It seems to go better when I enable Wdkm drivers in Sonar instead of Asio.
All the best.
Olivier
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 12, 16 6:57 PM
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☼ Best Answerby Vilovilo June 14, 16 2:31 AM
Hi Olivier, Thanks got your report - we will investigate it. The crash stack indicates a memory overwrite when starting playback. I don't think that its related to your audio interface but its likely related to one of the synths in your project. Can you list the synths you have or send us the project file? You can attach it to the CWBRN.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - June 12, 16 7:19 PM
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 4:40 AM
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Hi Noel,
I've sent the project file.
Thanks again .
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azslow3
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 6:30 AM
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
The crash stack indicates a memory overwrite when starting playback.
Sorry for probably off-topic, but since you mention memory corruption when starting playback: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3430999In short words, that is an example of corrupted project file (stay corrupted even after removing everything from it) which trigger Sonar crash on playback once 2 arbitrary synths are added.
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 8:58 AM
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Hi Alexey,
Thank you for posting ,though I am not able to open the files you mentionned ( I am on an I pad at this time) I think there is some common issue with what I am confronted with,but....
I have the chance to have Noel looking at the problem and I will wait his return to make up my mind.
By the way,I would like to thank again Noel in perticular and the Cakewalk brand in general because in my sense,having a recognised professionnal taking care of the case of a customer who posted a topic in the generic forum of the compagny is amazing.
Most part of the time you have to pay for a professionnal to have a ( sometime quick) look at your case, here you do not pay and the professionnal ( Noel) makes the first step and on a sunday evening and I'm sure the look will be sharp.
Hats off to the level of implication that is met here
All the best.
Olivier
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 9:39 AM
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Vilovilo
Hi Alexey,
Thank you for posting ,though I am not able to open the files you mentionned ( I am on an I pad at this time) I think there is some common issue with what I am confronted with,but....
I have the chance to have Noel looking at the problem and I will wait his return to make up my mind.
By the way,I would like to thank again Noel in perticular and the Cakewalk brand in general because in my sense,having a recognised professionnal taking care of the case of a customer who posted a topic in the generic forum of the compagny is amazing.
Most part of the time you have to pay for a professionnal to have a ( sometime quick) look at your case, here you do not pay and the professionnal ( Noel) makes the first step and on a sunday evening and I'm sure the look will be sharp.
Hats off to the level of implication that is met here
All the best.
Olivier
Exactly. +1000 to the staff at Cakewalk 
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Thedoccal
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 3:13 PM
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It would be very helpful to have a "Tool" within Sonar that could "Check Project for Errors". I suspected that my memory (overwrite) was causing "start/stop" screen freezes, but not until replacing half the hardware in my computer at significant cost. Third Party plugins also seem to be buggy, including Waves TG12345. I am running three projects that all contain midi, audio, and softsynths, and they are all presenting problems. It could be that the project itself has become corrupted...due to the insertion and then removal of plugins. If I had a tool to diagnose the project I could at least know where to start fixing...or just rebuild the project if the tool indicates too many corruptions.
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dcumpian
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 13, 16 4:12 PM
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Thedoccal
It would be very helpful to have a "Tool" within Sonar that could "Check Project for Errors". I suspected that my memory (overwrite) was causing "start/stop" screen freezes, but not until replacing half the hardware in my computer at significant cost. Third Party plugins also seem to be buggy, including Waves TG12345. I am running three projects that all contain midi, audio, and softsynths, and they are all presenting problems. It could be that the project itself has become corrupted...due to the insertion and then removal of plugins. If I had a tool to diagnose the project I could at least know where to start fixing...or just rebuild the project if the tool indicates too many corruptions.
If you are having issues with TG12345, you may have deeper system issues. I've used that Waves plugin many times without any issues. Waves plugins are probably some of the most used on the planet and with that exposure get lots of testing. I'm not saying there are no bugs in Waves products, only that if you are running into a problem, so should many others using the same plugin.Have you contacted Waves support? The same goes for project corruption. I've never had a project get corrupted. Ever. However, I also only insert and remove plugins with the transport stopped. I know you spent time and money swapping PC parts, but have you run memory and CPU testing utilities on your rig? While I agree that a tool to validate a project might be useful, it would only be safe to trust it if run on a machine other than the machine giving you problems. Regards, Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 8:09 AM
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Thedoccal
It would be very helpful to have a "Tool" within Sonar that could "Check Project for Errors". I suspected that my memory (overwrite) was causing "start/stop" screen freezes, but not until replacing half the hardware in my computer at significant cost. Third Party plugins also seem to be buggy, including Waves TG12345. I am running three projects that all contain midi, audio, and softsynths, and they are all presenting problems. It could be that the project itself has become corrupted...due to the insertion and then removal of plugins. If I had a tool to diagnose the project I could at least know where to start fixing...or just rebuild the project if the tool indicates too many corruptions.
The "tool" is built in in a sense. When we load projects we automatically check for common errors and fix them automatically. However loading a project in safe mode can also fix some other kinds of errors. In this case however I don't think this is specifically project corruption. Most likely some plugin related incompatibility.
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azslow3
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 11:01 AM
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dcumpian
The same goes for project corruption. I've never had a project get corrupted. Ever. However, I also only insert and remove plugins with the transport stopped.
One corrupted project was linked before is this thread... you can check yourself that it is really corrupted  Small example: I hit one severe bug with my own AZ Lua plug-in yesterday. With this plug-in in FX chain, if I "swipe" by mouse over Virtual Keyboard in Sonar (and only in this case... not when I swipe in PRV or on MIDI controller), after a while associated VSTi stop producing any sound (sometimes followed by Sonar crash, sometime not, looks like a memory corruption...). Even in case I then remove AZ Lua from FX, save project and restart Sonar, the VSTi keep silence after the project is loaded again. I am going to have an interesting evening to find why that happens, but the point is different. It is possible to produce something which is kept in the Project File and continue coursing problems. May be in my case I will find how to "fix" the project without rebuilding it, but with linked before project I have failed to do so (note that the linked project is effectively "empty"). But assuming quite specific way to reproduce my bug (I am using that plug-in without problems for a while), it could take months till I hit it in real live. I mean it is possible to do something no one else is usually doing and so have troubles while other can be "happy" and never hit the same.
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mettelus
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 12:12 AM
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Alexey, you should track down that developer and badger them till they fix it, and don't accept "All software has bugs!" as an answer
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dcumpian
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 1:21 PM
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azslow3
dcumpian
The same goes for project corruption. I've never had a project get corrupted. Ever. However, I also only insert and remove plugins with the transport stopped.
One corrupted project was linked before is this thread... you can check yourself that it is really corrupted
Small example: I hit one severe bug with my own AZ Lua plug-in yesterday. With this plug-in in FX chain, if I "swipe" by mouse over Virtual Keyboard in Sonar (and only in this case... not when I swipe in PRV or on MIDI controller), after a while associated VSTi stop producing any sound (sometimes followed by Sonar crash, sometime not, looks like a memory corruption...). Even in case I then remove AZ Lua from FX, save project and restart Sonar, the VSTi keep silence after the project is loaded again.
I am going to have an interesting evening to find why that happens, but the point is different. It is possible to produce something which is kept in the Project File and continue coursing problems. May be in my case I will find how to "fix" the project without rebuilding it, but with linked before project I have failed to do so (note that the linked project is effectively "empty"). But assuming quite specific way to reproduce my bug (I am using that plug-in without problems for a while), it could take months till I hit it in real live. I mean it is possible to do something no one else is usually doing and so have troubles while other can be "happy" and never hit the same.
Well, then I guess I've been lucky. That and the fact that I rarely, if ever, experiment with an untested plugin on a real-live project. Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
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azslow3
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 3:07 PM
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Sorry for near completely off-topic. May be the only relevant point in this message is: what looks like a "buggy project" sometimes is not really buggy... mettelus
Alexey, you should track down that developer and badger them till they fix it, and don't accept "All software has bugs!" as an answer
I could not sleep well last night... AZ Lua was written with care and love... But what you propose has already happened and now I can watch EM and sleep well then dcumpian
Well, then I guess I've been lucky. That and the fact that I rarely, if ever, experiment with an untested plugin on a real-live project.
In may case that does not work, since I am the developer, the (only) tester and the user  It happens that when you slide Virtual Controller key by mouse, it produce Mon Wheel changes. That is (may be) nice feature when you expect it, but I was not. It also happens that my AZ Lua had a one character typo in processing Control Changes in live mode. And it also happens that resulting CC (incorrectly converted CC1, ModWheel, changes) was silencing VSTi and probably doing other unusual changes. So what I was thought to be "99%" memory corruption, somehow leaking into saved project, was CC number conversion bug in one plug-in (and the "damage" was saved as completely legit VSTi configuration).
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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Vilovilo
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Re: Strange Behavior on my System
June 14, 16 6:14 PM
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Waow, the thread goes its way far beyond my understanding. It often goes like this,you throw a stone in the water and the circles go and go..
In my case ,as it has been confirmed,it is a matter of plug-in struggling one against the other.
The main character in the pitch is Rx5 which is the ultimate tool when you track things like miked acoustic guitars but it must have been coded in too a modern manner for my old set-up.
Anyway I'm confident that an update ( from Izotope or from Cakewalk) will allow all thoose tools to work side by side.
Alexey,good luck. I do use quite a lot Voxengo's plugs ( which are in the loop with my issues but I like to work with theese tools) and I heard the y are managed by an Alexey...
Dan, i must admit that I am not always careful with plugs and the fact is that some stuff are not secure,for me it is a trial and errors process.
Noel,thanks again for the job done and for taking time to give a hand. I do believe that the pleasure I and other people have to work with Sonar is due to the people who are working backstage.
All the best.
Olivier.
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