Does SONAR have the ability to preserve pitch for slowed down audio recording ?

A typical case scenario .
I'm playing an instrument such as an 8 string guitar ...not enough chops on tap to play a part I want to play at the projects tempo ...
Lets say the global project tempo is 135 BPM ...there's enough chops on tap to play the part cleanly at 115 BPM ...
Does SONAR have the ability to allow me to slow down the whole project with all the audio included in the project to allow me to play my part cleanly ?
After having done that , will SONAR be able to go back to the original projects tempo and have my newly played audio part matched to the intended global  project tempo ? ............ with out audio artifacts ....
 
all the best ,
 
Kenny 
 

in a sense, yes it does.
is it easy to do ? not really.
this is one area I would love to see improved in future updates. if Riffmaster software can do it, sonar should be able to as well.
even if it takes 15 seconds to get back from point A - to point - B.

abacab
Good one Kenny!
 
I am waiting to hear the answer to this :-D

Yes, I'm real curious myself to know if SONAR can do what I'm asking   ...
thanks for checking in :-D .
 

chuckebaby
in a sense, yes it does.
is it easy to do ? not really.
this is one area I would love to see improved in future updates. if Riffmaster software can do it, sonar should be able to as well.
even if it takes 15 seconds to get back from point A - to point - B.

In a sense , I would have to surmise Yes , this probably can be done in  SONAR but it may involve a lot of pre work and lots of intricate workarounds .
 
Riffmaster , Yes I know you get where I'm going
I use Transcribe from Seventh String ...Love it .
OT , A lot of people don't know that Transcribe has the ability to split the parent file where you can have multiple children takes of the file set to various tempos with different sections of the secondary sound files highlighted ...They will all play autonomously at what ever tempo's and loop points you choose to set 
 
Back to the topic ...
The whole reason I started this thread is I had my mind blown pretty good today earlier when I was able to do exactly what I'm asking in another DAW that I'm very new too ....
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
 
 

or just do it in reaper with a couple of mouse clicks

Wait, you can slip stretch a Melodyne clip?

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Yes always could - on ARA clips you can do slip stretching or follow tempo which will stretch based on the tempo map. melodyne's stretching is the best. As long as you have reasonable stretch factors it sounds quite natural.

do you have to bounce to clips before you stretch ?

The Grim
or just do it in reaper with a couple of mouse clicks

Or Reason.

brundlefly

Grumbleweed_

The Grim
or just do it in reaper with a couple of mouse clicks

Or Reason.

I guess you missed "I'm interested in being able to create the same type of workflow in SONAR if it is possible ..."
 
It is, and I gave the steps earlier.
 
 

I would rather work exclusively in Sonar.
thanks for the step lay out Dave.
 
I would like to see in the future some enhancements to pitch / speed control though.
would be nice to have it simplified with just a click or two.
but for now Dave's steps will work just fine.
(Noel's as well.)

Other than making selections, opening the Clip tab of the Inspector, changing tempos, etc., it is just a couple clicks. Things always sound more complicated when described step by step.  You can simplify it further by using the shortcut to bring up the Audiosnap Palette (mine's non-default so I didn't mention it) and clicking the Clip Follows Project button there which automatically enables Audiosnap at the same time. That makes it one keystroke and one click to get Autostretch enabled on all selected clips.
 
But I'll give you the need for more flexible tempo and pitch control; The thing that's surprisingly difficult to do in SONAR is to stretch audio without preserving pitch.

Anderton

brundlefly
It is, and I gave the steps earlier.

 
I'm not sure why, but when I try what you describe with my projects, even though all the clips show AudioSnap as enabled they don't all sync up with each other. Maybe it's because I'm using a mix of loops, hard disk audio, and MIDI? In any event if others have issues, try the alternative technique in Friday's Tip of the Week #99. It's not as "automated," but it's foolproof and the sound quality is excellent.

Craig,
  I had your same experience.   Did you check the Average Tempo field for your clips in AudioSnap?  The Average Tempo detected by AudioSnap of the clips in my project ranged from 67 to 212 bpm.  All clips were recorded in the same project.  I suspect that if every clip is not Clip Mapped properly with the same tempo, then they will not sync.
 
-- Ron

Anderton

kennywtelejazz
As far as where I'm going with this thread ,
I'm interested in being able to create the same type of workflow in SONAR if it is possible ...

See Friday's Tip of the Week #99, "Slow Down a Song So It's Easier to Play Along." The sound quality is better than real-time variable speed (unless you're changing tempo and pitch simultaneously using the Loop Construction Window) because the week 99 technique uses offline rendering to banish artifacts. Even if SONAR had real-time variable speed, I'd use what I described because I prioritize sound quality.

Hello Craig ,
 
Thank you so much for the heads up on your Friday Tip of the Week # 99 ..
 
I wound up starting out with your lesson first for a number of reasons ...
It was the easiest one for me to grasp straight out of the gate before I opened SONAR up ....
My apology to Noel for jumping around the line ...
I need to bone up on Melodyne to be able to do what Noel suggested ... my short list is that will happen tonight or early on tomorrow ...
 
Back to your lesson ,
Weekly Tip #99 actually ended up helping me in a totally unexpected area that I needed much help in , and I didn't know the work around on how to get there .... I will get to that in a moment ....
I spent about 3 hours doing audio only to keep it simple on my self ...
I took some pre mix's and bounces that I had around and opened them up with a total disregard for SONAR's global tempo/mapping  ...
Some of my work files ranged from some of my stuff/ music  to out right Traditional Be Bop Style Jazz ...
In the cases where the file was already a stereo mix that I hadn't premixed and bounced in it's own SONAR project , I found it to be very helpful to set a marker  at the end of the original file in SONAR's time ruler so I could restore the Stretch edited file back to the original length ...
i needed that since I didn't have the un-bounced tracks for a visual line up ... 
 
I Went from mild to wild as far as stretching went .
Yes ,Weekly Tip #99 is a very useful addition to my workflow.
 
I do hope to get over to your thread and leave some feed back ....
If I don't make it over there soon enough let me say Thank You here and now
 
In the mean time while I'm over here I may as well share a few of my impressions ...
I'm pretty used to playing with slowed down tracks.
Transcribing or copying a pro players lines is usually what I'm after , so I don't mind playing to a track that may exhibit the traditional artifacts . (that comes with the territory ).
 
 
Craig , one of the things that I found very useful about your lesson was in addition to it being very easy on the workflow regarding being able to play along ,  I found that it's an excellent way to  punch in at various places along SONAR's time line to try out different musical parts with out having to practice for hours to have the chops to play the parts precisely in real time ....
 
While I was taking a break from writing this post I did a little experiment ...
I time stretched an Abersold Be Bop tune , then punched in at 3 random places along SONAR's time line and recorded a chorus at each section ...I didn't start at bar one , I started at who knows where? on purpose  ...as an experiment 
Did the same for the other 2 places in my audio track ....
When I was finished , I bounced to clips my new audio track and did a regular slip edit to have a correct start point and end point ...
Since I had a marker in the timeline I stretched slipped the backing track back to it and did the same with the new audio track that had my 3 separate takes on it  ...
Everything lined up and  played fine .....that in and of itself was worth the price of admission .
 
The biggest thing/ benefit  I got out of your lesson was that it has helped me much more on the midi guitar end of things ....
just the audio was my original topic , so I consider this to be a real bonus  ...
 
I use the Jam Origin Midi Guitar Plug . The routing is super simple , I place it on my audio track as an effect , it is configured as a soft synth and it shows up in SONAR's synth rack .
The tracking is very good in real time ...one thing I really like about it is it makes no difference if I play using  it in real time or slap it on a guitar track I have already played and send it out to a synth ....
The coolest thing about your lesson is now I can take any song or project that I'm working on , and now I'm able to
reel the project into a place where I can play my midi guitar parts cleanly
 
I already went there and found that one out for myself
Using your lessons workflow ,  I made a sound file / audio to midi conversion  over here where I'm playing the Lounge Lizard just as fast and in the style of Chick Corea as I'm ever gonna get in real life  ....that's the good news ...the bad news is I ain't Chick Corea   it may take another hundred years or so in the wood shed ...oh well so be it ...
 
Alright Peace Out , thank you once again ....
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 

brundlefly
The thing that's surprisingly difficult to do in SONAR is to stretch audio without preserving pitch.

That's why I use the Loop Construction Window for doing the old-school tape varispeed sound of raising pitch when shortening, and lowering pitch when lengthening. But I do this only on the final two-track, or to do interesting things with vocal harmonies, one line at a time.

SquireBum
 Craig,
  I had your same experience.   Did you check the Average Tempo field for your clips in AudioSnap?  The Average Tempo detected by AudioSnap of the clips in my project ranged from 67 to 212 bpm.  All clips were recorded in the same project.  I suspect that if every clip is not Clip Mapped properly with the same tempo, then they will not sync.
 

 
Autostretch doesn't care about clip tempo or beat mapping; it just does a linear stretch/compression of the audio according to the tempo ratio. So long as you haven't messed with the default 'Musical' timebase for the start time of MIDI and audio clips that don't start at time zero, everything should stretch and move proportionally to stay perfectly in sync. The one other thing I know of that can cause problems is having clips with positions locked. That's one reason I like to use the Inspector to access Clip Follows Project, because I can check the clip properties on the way to the Audiosnap section, and make sure nothing is locked.

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
You should be able to do this with Melodyne and slip stretching.
Change the tempo down to 115 BPM and record your part.
Then restore the tempo to 135 bpm.
Now select the previous recorded clip and turn it into a melodyne region fx clip.
Slip stretch the melodyne clip down to .85% of a stretch.
 
This should now result in the clip playing at 135 BPM. Artifacts will depend on the source material, but I doubt you will hear anything bad with a .85% stretch.

Hi Noel,
 
I'm trying to catch up over here and put your suggestion to use .
 
Stretch editing was something I have rarely done or used ..Craig's tip got me up to speed on that workflow .
Been making significant progress over here on that workflow ....
 
Here's the place where I tell on myself & spill the beans on how little I know about certain things that can be done in SONAR .
Just opened up Melodyne for the first time in over 2 years and I'm absolutely lost and confused ...
The only thing I have ever done with Melodyne was to use the ARA conversion in SONAR by sliding a monophonic guitar or bass audio track over to a midi track to have it converted over to midi...
Any pointers on where I can find a way to learn how to do what you are suggesting me to do in Melodyne ?
 
all the best,
 
Kenny
 
PS , Brundlefly your next I haven't forgot you ....
I'm trying to catch up on the things I need to learn ..your post includes ....lot's and lot's and lot's of things I need to learn