robert@gmwmusic.com
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 14:47:23
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No dought something changed! And updated! And my life is allot easier. From what your saying it sounds more like a windows 10 update. But what's crazy is it only effected Sonar.
And at this point, it really don't matter as long as everything works as expected.
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 15:23:35
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robert@gmwmusic.com
No dought something changed! And updated! And my life is allot easier. From what your saying it sounds more like a windows 10 update. But what's crazy is it only effected Sonar.
And at this point, it really don't matter as long as everything works as expected.
I have auto updates disabled and Control panel doesn't show any updates from MS. I'm wondering if MS is interacting with my computer in another way, possibly a internet database that we all connect to or something. This is really a mystery why all of a sudden it works. Did your sudden fix happen on Tuesday?
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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jackson white
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 15:51:57
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@gmp
Not sure what "internet connectivity" means exactly vs. specific OS or application s/w updates but there was a recent Win10 Pro update on this system (more than a couple days ago) before I decided to try release 2016.12 two days ago. The simple test project passed the test and so far the money projects are all opening/running with no issues, with the GUI appearing to be much "snappier" (responsive).
Please note this is -without- updating to the "early releases" announced for the two CW VSTs (no time for beta testing at the moment.) Of course, that will be the first thing I try if I run into problems again.
This is pure unqualified speculation on my part, but perhaps in your case, given the "timing issue" noted by the CW devs, there is some "timing issue" as a result of running the network drivers on your PC. By disconnecting, you may have changed the state just enough to make a difference.
Since I can't claim any specific action on my part to restore performance other than what was mentioned in my update, I'm going with the elves.
Happier holidays.
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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abacab
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 16:03:57
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gmp
robert@gmwmusic.com
No dought something changed! And updated! And my life is allot easier. From what your saying it sounds more like a windows 10 update. But what's crazy is it only effected Sonar.
And at this point, it really don't matter as long as everything works as expected.
I have auto updates disabled and Control panel doesn't show any updates from MS. I'm wondering if MS is interacting with my computer in another way, possibly a internet database that we all connect to or something. This is really a mystery why all of a sudden it works. Did your sudden fix happen on Tuesday?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"-Arthur C. Clarke
DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ...
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 16:31:33
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jackson white
@gmp
Not sure what "internet connectivity" means exactly vs. specific OS or application s/w updates but there was a recent Win10 Pro update on this system (more than a couple days ago) before I decided to try release 2016.12 two days ago. The simple test project passed the test and so far the money projects are all opening/running with no issues, with the GUI appearing to be much "snappier" (responsive).
Please note this is -without- updating to the "early releases" announced for the two CW VSTs (no time for beta testing at the moment.) Of course, that will be the first thing I try if I run into problems again.
This is pure unqualified speculation on my part, but perhaps in your case, given the "timing issue" noted by the CW devs, there is some "timing issue" as a result of running the network drivers on your PC. By disconnecting, you may have changed the state just enough to make a difference.
Since I can't claim any specific action on my part to restore performance other than what was mentioned in my update, I'm going with the elves.
Happier holidays.
I do have 2 other computers in my network one is a Win 10 computer, last time it got updates was 11/14. The 3rd computer is an XP. I did try a test with the other 2 computers turned off and my DAW with an internet connection and still got the runtime error. So that appears to rule out the networking theory. I'm glad things are better for both of us, I just can't help wanting to figure what went wrong and know why this happened to my system and no one else has chimed in that they had a similar experience.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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robert@gmwmusic.com
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 18:29:28
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It did and yes it's crazy! Does make your wonder?
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 20:22:45
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robert@gmwmusic.com
It did and yes it's crazy! Does make your wonder?
Thanks for chiming in, Robert. I feel like I've been alone in my situation. I'm one of the few that developed problems without updating to 2016.11. Can you please let me know if you had the same experience I've had with the problem surfacing out of the blue, without me changing anything and then going away out of the blue with no changes from me? I have many posts in many threads all on this topic. I reviewed your posts in this thread and don't’ find any info from you what specifically was going on. Is there another thread when you explain what happened to you? Thanks for any info. This whole experience has been unnerving. In the past when I run into a problem I can always revert back to an earlier C drive image when things were stable.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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robert@gmwmusic.com
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 21:16:01
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Actually I started by communicating directly with tech support. Sonar would crash when I first opened. I had to open more than once. Also I had to stop using my ASIO driver, it wouldn't work at all. And I just had other weird problems. Like when I bounced to a stereo track sonar would add two more tracks a left and right channel track. Also couldn't get sound from my midi controller or virtual controller. Crazy, I have been using cakewalk almost from the very beginning. I still have disk 1.1 and never seen anything like it. So it was hard for me to look at anything else sense I wasn't having any problems with anything else. And now everything is fine. And believe me I've tested it, it's been fixed. I was sure it was the cakewalk update that resolved the issues. Now after reading your post I don't know what to believe. But I'm happy that me and you; are back to work!
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 22:26:41
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robert@gmwmusic.com
Actually I started by communicating directly with tech support. Sonar would crash when I first opened. I had to open more than once. Also I had to stop using my ASIO driver, it wouldn't work at all. And I just had other weird problems. Like when I bounced to a stereo track sonar would add two more tracks a left and right channel track. Also couldn't get sound from my midi controller or virtual controller. Crazy, I have been using cakewalk almost from the very beginning. I still have disk 1.1 and never seen anything like it. So it was hard for me to look at anything else sense I wasn't having any problems with anything else. And now everything is fine. And believe me I've tested it, it's been fixed. I was sure it was the cakewalk update that resolved the issues. Now after reading your post I don't know what to believe. But I'm happy that me and you; are back to work!
Thanks Robert for the update. What version were you using when all the problems started? 2016.09? or did it start right after updating to 2016.11? And was it 2016.12 that fixed everything?
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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robert@gmwmusic.com
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 22:39:10
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It did start with me using 2016.09. I updated to 11 hoping it would fix it, didn't. I seen all the fixes for sure after 2016.12. However I'm not totally sure that's what fixed it. I was limiting my use of cakewalk, because of the problems. I turned back to my Roland 1680 so I'm not completely sure about the time frame when it was
completely fixed. I started testing again after update .12 and found all was well.
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/23 23:55:47
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robert@gmwmusic.com
It did start with me using 2016.09. I updated to 11 hoping it would fix it, didn't. I seen all the fixes for sure after 2016.12. However I'm not totally sure that's what fixed it. I was limiting my use of cakewalk, because of the problems. I turned back to my Roland 1680 so I'm not completely sure about the time frame when it was
completely fixed. I started testing again after update .12 and found all was well.
I see. You've been on quite a journey with this. I guess when your problems started you didn't have a lot of options. I suppose you don't' have any image files of your C drive or use System Restore. At this point I’m still leery of updating my Win 10 or trying the 2016.12 update until the smoke has definitely cleared. This seems to be a multi-prong problem and solution. Mine and your problem has been fixed, yet there are others still having problems, which appear to be related to his whole fiasco that started 3 weeks ago. We’re similar in the respect of how long we’ve been using Cakewalk. I’ve been using it since 1992. I used their DOS version for a short time, then we were in high cotton when Windows 3.1 came out. I’m a keyboard player, so I stuck with them since they were the first company to incorporate midi and audio recording. My Layla card was the very first reasonably priced sound card. Like you I’ve experienced lots of bugs but none like this one. No one has given an explanation of what has happened in my situation where 2016.09 all of a sudden develops this runtime error that somehow comes from the internet and the problem vanishes as suddenly as it came on.I’m not sure if MS or Cakewalk doesn't want us to know that they’re interacting with our computers without our knowledge. My guess is some kind of internet database is involved, either that or there are some mystery forced updates that everyone g ets.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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robert@gmwmusic.com
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/24 10:08:11
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One of the reasons I didn't use MS restore, I had other programs I wasn't having problems with and didn't want to change. This is a music computer; but I'm also starting to learn video software to go with the music. Get this; one of my first cards was also Layla sound card. In fact I still have the breakout box somewhere around here.
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jackson white
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/24 10:15:24
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☄ Helpfulby robert@gmwmusic.com 2016/12/24 10:27:40
@gmp
Please see Noel Borthwick's posts on the issue for a reasonable explanation of the problem. Given the complexity, deep capability and endless configuration variations for a PC based DAW, it's no great surprise to me that some dependency drops a monkey wrench in the works at some point.
My understanding is the root cause is the result of a Win10 update that exposed a very minor but long standing flaw in a few CW VSTs. It was -not- dependent on any specific Sonar update which is why rolling back did not work for me. "Timing issues" on a PC are on the order of micro/nanoseconds (clock ticks/cycles) so any slight disturbance in a high speed complex environment has the potential to show up as an issue in a s/w application. Changing the state of the environment even slightly could be just enough to expose the problem, or fix it, as was the case for me.
I'm thankful Sonar has a committed and highly responsive dev team that is capable of identifying the root cause of an obscure but challenging problem and put some priority on releasing a stable fix. Not to be taken for granted and given the nature of the beast, one really good reason for using Sonar.
My problem DAW is now working fine, but per Noel's comments, it could be temporary. I plan to install the updated VSTs once they are released.
HTH.
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/24 12:25:51
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Thanks Jackson. I did see Noel's response about the timing with VST's. That part all makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why my problems with 2016.09 (with no Win updates since 10/9) happened only when an internet connection would change something on my computer and then the problem suddenly vanished on Tuesday. Many others are still having problems, so at this point all is well and I’m not changing anything until the smoke clears.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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jackson white
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/25 10:22:46
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gmp
why my problems with 2016.09 (with no Win updates since 10/9) happened only when an internet connection would change something on my computer and then the problem suddenly vanished on Tuesday.
I hear you. To have a completely stable system go south with no specific change to the environment by the user is a bit stressful. This is the first problem ever that I was not able to fix myself so I'm especially interested in understanding the cause/effect/solution. The fact that it "fixed itself" after a few weeks does not restore much confidence but some users noted several reboots were required to get back up and running after some "changes", so perhaps it just took a few more on my box than others. It's also possible that you have a similar but different problem? ? Is your internet connection to the problem DAW a physical connection or wireless? ? If a physical connection, did the problem go away when you unplugged the cable? ? And did the problem reappear when you plugged it back in? ? Did you reboot in between connecting/disconnecting to the internet?
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/25 14:39:57
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jackson white gmp why my problems with 2016.09 (with no Win updates since 10/9) happened only when an internet connection would change something on my computer and then the problem suddenly vanished on Tuesday. I hear you. To have a completely stable system go south with no specific change to the environment by the user is a bit stressful. This is the first problem ever that I was not able to fix myself so I'm especially interested in understanding the cause/effect/solution. The fact that it "fixed itself" after a few weeks does not restore much confidence but some users noted several reboots were required to get back up and running after some "changes", so perhaps it just took a few more on my box than others. It's also possible that you have a similar but different problem? ? Is your internet connection to the problem DAW a physical connection or wireless?? If a physical connection, did the problem go away when you unplugged the cable?? And did the problem reappear when you plugged it back in?? Did you reboot in between connecting/disconnecting to the internet? Thanks for your interest in this Jackson. Being able to revert to a previous, known to be good, image file has always been a fail safe system when something goes haywire. I have a commercial studio and I simply can't afford to have a system go down with clients here. Image files have saved me so many times when unexpected problems arise. I have 3 computers networked together using a wired network using ATT U-Verse for the internet. The problem did not go away when unplugging the network cable or by turning off the other 2 computers. When I reverted to a previous image as long as I was disconnected from the internet I never got the runtime error. I could be connected to the other 2 computers and that was ok, but as soon as I connected to the internet, after a few minutes or an hour or so I started developing the runtime errors. It appeared like something updated without my permission. I have auto-updates disabled. I don't' like the idea of MS changing something on my computer without me knowing about it. Always before a new Plat update, I install all Win updates, then I install the new Plat and then save an image file. After much testing I found that CA-2A and LP-64 EQ were both causing all the Runtime errors. And using the safe mode and answering "No" to those plugins was a good workaround. Not only did I try reverting to my 10/23 image but several others with the exact same result. As far as rebooting in between connecting/disconnecting to the internet, I was constantly rebooting to test the problem, since it always showed up from a fresh reboot and opening the 1st CWP file. Like you, I hope we get some explanation of what was happening.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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jackson white
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/26 10:13:01
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@gmp
Thanks for the info. I use very similar practices (dedicated DAW PCs, Win 10 Pro specifically because you can manage auto updates, run a Win10 check/update before a new Sonar update, test project, then image.)
The problem with this bug was everything checked out fine on my "sandbox" PC, as has every single previous update and didn't show up until it hit a "work" DAW. Win10 was not my first suspect but when a couple of Sonar update rollbacks did not work, started to get a bit concerned. Considered it might have been a PC specific hardware related issue, but everything checked out fine.
Not sure what the ATT U-Verse is, assume it's just the ISP, but a connection to the internet made no difference on my problem DAW. I noted additional problems with the new LP EQ/MB where an insertion into an FX bin would display a blank UI for the FX then crash. Those seem to have "corrected themselves" along with the known VSTs after the state change with Sonar 2016.12 and the more recent Win10 update.
The insight from CW devs indicates a pretty tricky issue, but the fact that they've identified something relevant is encouraging.
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/26 12:54:42
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jackson white
@gmp
Thanks for the info. I use very similar practices (dedicated DAW PCs, Win 10 Pro specifically because you can manage auto updates, run a Win10 check/update before a new Sonar update, test project, then image.)
The problem with this bug was everything checked out fine on my "sandbox" PC, as has every single previous update and didn't show up until it hit a "work" DAW. Win10 was not my first suspect but when a couple of Sonar update rollbacks did not work, started to get a bit concerned. Considered it might have been a PC specific hardware related issue, but everything checked out fine.
Not sure what the ATT U-Verse is, assume it's just the ISP, but a connection to the internet made no difference on my problem DAW. I noted additional problems with the new LP EQ/MB where an insertion into an FX bin would display a blank UI for the FX then crash. Those seem to have "corrected themselves" along with the known VSTs after the state change with Sonar 2016.12 and the more recent Win10 update.
The insight from CW devs indicates a pretty tricky issue, but the fact that they've identified something relevant is encouraging.
Thanks Jackson for the info. Did you revert back to an old image on your work DAW? I know you did rollbacks, but that won’t help this problem. Once you updated Plat and Win 10 you had the bug and disconnecting from the internet won’t help. I'm just wondering if you did revert to an old image and if you tried that connected and disconnected from the internet.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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jackson white
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/26 15:38:17
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I expect an image restore would have worked fine. I was in the middle of troubleshooting when I saw the post by @bitflipper on running Procmon. That seemed to allow getting something done, so held off on an image restore thinking there might be benefit to either more structured testing for my CWBRN or the possibility of a quick fix from CW. I've never had any issues with internet connectivity (it usually stays connected as I backup to the cloud) but could try to find some time to run the image restore and check it. I might want to wait until the fix becomes official and update to a new known good image as I've cleaned up a few things in the course of debugging this.
Any specific user actions/repro steps to see the problem?
-------------------- Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
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gmp
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Re: CW VSTs crashing every project [now fixed?]
2016/12/26 15:56:03
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jackson white
I expect an image restore would have worked fine. I was in the middle of troubleshooting when I saw the post by @bitflipper on running Procmon. That seemed to allow getting something done, so held off on an image restore thinking there might be benefit to either more structured testing for my CWBRN or the possibility of a quick fix from CW. I've never had any issues with internet connectivity (it usually stays connected as I backup to the cloud) but could try to find some time to run the image restore and check it. I might want to wait until the fix becomes official and update to a new known good image as I've cleaned up a few things in the course of debugging this.
Any specific user actions/repro steps to see the problem?
Actually it's too late to restore an image file, I would expect. Because right now if I restore an image file everything is fine with no runtime errors. Something from the internet has been fixed that changed my situation. So far I haven't found anyone that had the same experience as I did, of an image file not fixing this. So many don’t use image files or a dual boot system. I never completely trusted system restore and am a firm believer in Murphy’s Law, so I don’t’ mind the added hassle of my methods.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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