dwardzala
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 13:19:12
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aspenleaf
The OP wanted to know if Sonar Platinum comes with everything needed to get a handle on audio engineering. No, it doesn't.
So the question still stands - what is lacking?
DaveMain Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller Win10 x64 Home Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d) Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD) M-Box Mini v. 2 Win 10 x64 Home Sonar 2016.10 Platinum Check out my original music: https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
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aspenleaf
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 13:38:46
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It's not lacking anything that is needed to produce a finished recording. I use Sonar Platinum and I like it. But it's just a tool, used to perform a task. It doesn't provide everything needed to get a handle on being an audio engineer any more than owning a microphone does.
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thedukewestern
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 14:38:14
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aspenleaf
No.
All the plugins in the world won't make a poorly recorded track sound good. Start with the basics. Learn to use your mics to make recordings that sound good without any plugins, then you can learn to use plugins or external processors in a creative way, not as a way to fix a poor recording.
this isn't anything that any daw manufacturer sells =-)
Be the first one who thinks that you can Sonar Platinum, Windows 7 64 bit - clean install January 2016, Focusrite Pro 40, Outboard Pres, Native Instruments Komplete, Izotope, PSP, Melodyne, Vegetarian
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 18:43:26
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dwardzala
aspenleaf
The OP wanted to know if Sonar Platinum comes with everything needed to get a handle on audio engineering. No, it doesn't.
So the question still stands - what is lacking?
I gathered that, given my experience level that nothing is lacking :)
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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John
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 19:29:15
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aspenleaf
It's not lacking anything that is needed to produce a finished recording. I use Sonar Platinum and I like it. But it's just a tool, used to perform a task. It doesn't provide everything needed to get a handle on being an audio engineer any more than owning a microphone does.
I'm not sure about the distinction you're making. Owning a microphone wont make one and audio engineer but owning a studio may do just that. Sonar is a studio.
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 20:02:22
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By way of explanation for my question(s) here, part of my "problem" if you will is that I have been trying to ride two horses with one ass and the time had come for me to choose. Let me explain. By circumstance, I started with both SONAR Studio (later upgraded to Platinum) and Reason 6.5 (now up to version 9). I like them both but for very different reasons. With Reason, it's a rack metaphor and since I worked on telephones key systems and tech control systems for a long time in the Air Force, racks with wiring on the back just seem like home to me. I also have learned to appreciate synths a lot since I got Reason, plus it's frankly pretty simple to wrap one's head around the basics of it's use. Of course the downside is that as a guitarist, the "amp modeling" is sub par (IMHO) and I'm still trying to figure out CV inputs and how I can make use of them. Also, the community is largely into EDM which I am OK with, but not where I want to be in my life musically. But I digress.
SONAR on the other hand is far more technical in nature (to me) and it wasn't immediately approachable to me because I couldn't figure out at first how to make my controllers work (later realized I don't really need them lol), and the sheer plethora of options in the Preferences section had my head spinning at first. Throw in concepts like Pro Channels, Sends, Buses, Patch Points and Aux tracks and I was simply a bit overwhelmed by it. But the amp sims and drum offerings are excellent and once I began to see things clearer, I really started to like it a lot and I feel it is probably far more capable and is therefore the one I'd like to settle into learning the actual art and science of audio engineering.
I am nearly 58 years old and this will never be a career and I know that. I am doing it because I love music, I love working on complex problems and figuring them out. I am a self taught programmer for example, getting my degree in CompSci after I was already employed as one. I like complex problems so much in fact, I have been learning two DAWs literally at once and I think it's just time I REALLY learned one or the other (because they both are remarkably different from one another functionally) and the one one I am settling into is SONAR. It is better supported in my opinion, this forum is very helpful and a lot less snarky in my opinion (they eventually closed the PH forum for all the bickering that went on there) and now that I have been finally getting to really know SONAR, I really like SONAR better. So that's why I asked, and have been asking other questions so I can get off the fence and get down to learning the trade, not the tools.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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chuckebaby
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 20:16:06
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SiberianKhatru59
I started with both SONAR Studio (later upgraded to Platinum) and Reason 6.5 (now up to version 9).
I remember in early version of Reason, it couldn't record Audio :-) It has come a long way now though. You know the DAW software just comes down to what you are more comfortable with. I will say this, even though I am an experienced engineer, producer, I still find the learning curve is the hardest part of any Digital audio software. To be honest, I guess that could go for any other kind of software out there. When a person becomes comfortable with the software they are using, that's when the magic happens. The thought process used to have to think about your next move is gone and you are left to use only that same thought process on one thing, creating music. Having to search around a manual looking for a shortcut or a button can single handedly rob your creative process blind.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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SiberianKhatru59
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 20:23:49
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chuckebaby
When a person becomes comfortable with the software they are using, that's when the magic happens.
The thought process used to have to think about your next move is gone and you are left to use only that same thought process on one thing, creating music.
Having to search around a manual looking for a shortcut or a button can single handedly rob your creative process blind.
All of which is exactly why I decided to, for lack of a better term specialize in SONAR going forward.
SONAR Platinum, Win7 Home Premium 64bit, Sweetwater Creation Station CS250v21 (Ivy Bridge Core i5 3.4Ghz CPU, 12GB DDR3/1600Mhz RAM, 500GB/1TB Seagate Barracuda system/audio drives, SATA 6.0, USB 3.0), M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB, 2x KRK Rokit 5's, Yamaha MO8
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 20:55:46
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SiberianKhatru59
SONAR on the other hand is far more technical in nature (to me) and it wasn't immediately approachable to me because I couldn't figure out at first how to make my controllers work (later realized I don't really need them lol), and the sheer plethora of options in the Preferences section had my head spinning at first. Throw in concepts like Pro Channels, Sends, Buses, Patch Points and Aux tracks and I was simply a bit overwhelmed by it. But the amp sims and drum offerings are excellent and once I began to see things clearer, I really started to like it a lot and I feel it is probably far more capable and is therefore the one I'd like to settle into learning the actual art and science of audio engineering.
Not for nothing, but sends, buses, patch points and aux tracks are all concepts that existed and were routinely used in recording consoles long before Sonar thought to model them. They are all concepts that are still routinely used in the recording industry both on the digital side and on the analog side for those still making recordings that way. If your goal is to gain a better understanding of audio engineering as it applies to creating music, having a good grasp on what each of those things does and how to properly make use of them is kind of audio engineering 101. So if Reason doesn't really do any of that (I'm not familiar with reason at all so I have no idea) then I think you have your answer. Because Sonar most definitely does do all those things. And it does all of them more or less the same way they're done in the analog world. In other words, if you can gain a good understanding of how to use sends and buses in Sonar, you will have no trouble making effective use of them when you suddenly find yourself sitting behind a large swanky SSL board should that ever come to pass.
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
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pharohoknaughty
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 23:07:40
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If you do any vocals you will need to pay for Melodyne, at least the Editor level, in my opinion.
The version that comes with Sonar is not viable.
And BTW be prepared to spend a bunch of time learning to use Melodyne. Its not intuitive in my book, but its the only game in town if you are using Sonar.
Cakewalk user since DOS3. Currently Platinum on a ASUS Z97 Sabertooth Mark 1 USB 3.1, i4790 3.6, 16 gigs memory, Windows 10 64, RME UCX using firewire.
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/19 23:58:48
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pharohoknaughty
If you do any vocals you will need to pay for Melodyne, at least the Editor level, in my opinion.
The version that comes with Sonar is not viable.
And BTW be prepared to spend a bunch of time learning to use Melodyne. Its not intuitive in my book, but its the only game in town if you are using Sonar.
Or... you could use a singer that knows how to actually sing. I'm just sayin'
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change. -microapp i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
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John
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 00:05:09
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SiberianKhatru59
chuckebaby
When a person becomes comfortable with the software they are using, that's when the magic happens.
The thought process used to have to think about your next move is gone and you are left to use only that same thought process on one thing, creating music.
Having to search around a manual looking for a shortcut or a button can single handedly rob your creative process blind.
All of which is exactly why I decided to, for lack of a better term specialize in SONAR going forward.
I think you're going to do just fine. Reason can compliment Sonar.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 01:18:11
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BobF
You will never have all of the plug-ins you need 
The plug-ins I need haven't been written. I need a plug-in that fixes all the stupid mistakes I make.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
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Anderton
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 02:18:40
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Rather than quote things, a couple observations. 1. It's not true that Melodyne Essentials isn't "viable." With even the slightest bit of experimental bent you can do all kinds of things with it, including outlier techniques like envelope-controlled flanging, ADT effects, and fashioning chord progressions out of a static series of chords. Rumor has it you can also use it to pitch-correct vocals  . However, just because there's nothing wrong with Essentials doesn't mean that Editor isn't mind-boggling. I think it's well worth the investment, especially if you work with, uh, "sketchy" singers. Also, its polyphonic pitch correct borders on the magical. But learn Essentials first, and you'll find learning Editor easier (note: when adjusting the blobs in Essential, have the track's Input Echo on). 2. You have Reason and SONAR - dude - you have the best of both worlds!! You can ReWire Reason into SONAR (the Propellerheads folks said SONAR had one of the best implementations of ReWire when Cakewalk added it) and then Reason essentially becomes SONAR's Instrument Rack of the Gods. Yeah it's a little more to learn, but once you figure out ReWire it's not something that you have to get better at - you figure it out, it works, done. And whether or not SONAR has "eveything" you need to learn audio, there are tutorials, the Cakewalk blog, the eZine, and a variety of other instructional materials (not to mention "The Big Book of SONAR Tips," hint hint) that help fill in the knowledge part based on the experience of others. So really, the only thing not provided by the SONAR ecosystem is your own personal experience. Go for it!
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LJB
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 02:27:19
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☄ Helpfulby kennywtelejazz 2016/12/20 20:01:48
If you can't get excellent results using SPLAT it is definitely NOT a shortcoming in the software.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
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PhilW
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 14:49:50
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aspenleaf
No.
All the plugins in the world won't make a poorly recorded track sound good. Start with the basics. Learn to use your mics to make recordings that sound good without any plugins, then you can learn to use plugins or external processors in a creative way, not as a way to fix a poor recording.
Absolutely. Nothing about any DAW or plugin will make you better at recording. At least half of all this is the performance, the room, the mics, their placement and so on. Sonar won't help you get a handle on *recording* other than using it to do a lot of recording and finding out what works.
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Anderton
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/20 15:31:24
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PhilW
aspenleaf
No.
All the plugins in the world won't make a poorly recorded track sound good. Start with the basics. Learn to use your mics to make recordings that sound good without any plugins, then you can learn to use plugins or external processors in a creative way, not as a way to fix a poor recording.
Absolutely. Nothing about any DAW or plugin will make you better at recording. At least half of all this is the performance, the room, the mics, their placement and so on. Sonar won't help you get a handle on *recording* other than using it to do a lot of recording and finding out what works.
While true, none of that relates to the OP. Part of "getting a handle on audio engineering" is having the tools commonly used in audio engineering so you can learn about them and gain experience. If you the entire initial post it's mostly about whether he will need additional plug-ins. For example, if SONAR didn't include EQ, he would not be able to get a handle on how to apply EQ. Since that's an essential recording tool, he would indeed need to buy an EQ plug-in.
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slyman
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 12:51:59
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Bristol_Jonesey
If you can't get a GREAT result using just the bundled plugins then it's not the software that's lacking.....
AMEN!
Sonar Platinum, Gigabyte H87-HD3, Intel 4770k, 16Mb Ram, Win 10 Pro, RME Babyface Pro, Roland A-Pro 800, Presonus Studio Channel, Kemper Profiling Amp, Strat/Tele/LesPaul/Taylor 214ce/Dean Cadillac/P-Bass
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cparmerlee
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 15:00:45
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Anderton
For example, if SONAR didn't include EQ, he would not be able to get a handle on how to apply EQ. Since that's an essential recording tool, he would indeed need to buy an EQ plug-in.
At the risk of being redundant (and a bit dense) it seems to me the question is, "If I have SPlat, what are the additional plug-ins I am most likely to find essential, or at least very useful?" I am not certain exactly what comes with SPlat in the way of reverb. I think a limited version of Breverb is included, which is pretty good. At one point, Cake also offered a free version of Rematrix Solo (reverb), which sounds better than Breverb to my ears, but I don't think this is included in SPlat now. So a good stereo reverb might be something to consider. I also find the Nomad Factory Blue Tubes stereo imager better than any other stereo imager I have tried (including Izotope). But I think that still comes bundled with SPlat, so it is a moot point.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Anderton
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 15:02:35
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SPlat still includes REmatrix Solo.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 15:30:06
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Anderton
SPlat still includes REmatrix Solo.
Great. Then I'd say there is nothing really essential that isn't well covered by SPlat. I am enjoying using Izotope Neutron, which covers a lot of territory occupied by the various SPlat plug-ins. I find the integrated Neotron environment a little easier than using a bunch of separate plug-ins, but I tend to stick pretty close to the the presets. And I certainly would not call Neutron essential. If one is dealing with live recordings, then I would definitely consider Izotope RX5 to be essential.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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John
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 19:32:42
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I have said this on many occasions to members asking the same questions. Sonar Platinum has everything you need for making quality recordings. Really, you don't need anything else except for a good audio interface a pair of near field monitors and the time to learn them fully. Here CW has a over 2000 page manual with all sorts of chapters dealing with subjects like digital audio and MIDI. It has tutorials that take you through applying these things in Sonar. Plus you have us. This forum. It prides itself in offering help for anything Sonar related. Get stuck ask here and I'll bet members will be falling over themselves giving great answers. A member leaves out something not to worry another will add the missing information. Also you have years of knowledge accumulated over the years that only a forum with a long history can have. Further, you want to watch a video or two on a specific topic check out the video archives here. http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONAR-University If you love music and want to learn how to record it well you have come to the right place.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/21 20:08:19
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John
Here CW has a over 2000 page manual with all sorts of chapters dealing with subjects like digital audio and MIDI. It has tutorials that take you through applying these things in Sonar.
That's too hard. Isn't there some pill I can take to become a better engineer? 
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Muziekschuur at home
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Re: Tell me...does SPLAT come with everything I need to get a handle on audio engineering?
2016/12/26 16:36:18
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Yes. Current version of Cakewalk Sonar Platinum does come with everything you need. I got rid of everything else. I bought all Prochannel plugins cakewalk has and I am so A-ok. Because now I use all the knobs there are and I truely are imimate with all the features. Gives me a comfy feel. And my remote controller works great with the system!
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Windows 7 32bit & 64bit (dualboot) Gigabyte mobo Intel dual quad 9650 & 4GB Ram RME DIGI9636 & Tascam DM24. M-audio Rbus & SI-24 Alesis Pro active 5.1 & Radford 90 transmissionline monitors. Roland RD-150 piano Edirol UM-880 & alesis fireport. Remote recording Alesis HD-24 & Phonic MRS 1-20. P.A. D&R Dayner 29-8-2 & behringer MX8000 (& racks) Rackpc Sonar Platinum with win10 AMD X6 1055T, 16GB Ram Dell inspiron 17R 6gb ram W10 two SSD's Sonar Plat.
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