QuadCore
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My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
I am getting hangs in sonar X3 GUI while music plays on. Just thought i'd find out what the situation is with video cards, since i am getting some video hangs while using Sonar X3 and some plugins with real time displays. I have a GeForce GT240 in a 2013 i7quadcore2.6GHz. and that's all i have needed. But that's ancient in video card years. Could it be the 2013 video card or my 2013 PC that can't keep up? Either or neither?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 05:31:28
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There are very few plugs that do anything that could remotely stress the video card, it seems really unlikely that that's it. It's easy to tell if it's the CPU - check the meters. Does it happen in all projects or only those with lots of tracks and plugins? It sounds more like there is some other problem, perhaps a background program or a faulty driver. What do you mean by "hangs"? Does audio drop out too? Does the program crash? Or does the display just stall for a while?
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QuadCore
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 16:11:38
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Thanks, Sanderxpander. So i guess it's not the video card. It's funny - the audio continues, while the Sonar GUI screen stalls and response from mouse/key clicks is greatly delayed. Eventually it gets so far behind my clicks that i have to abort the program. It happens even in an empty project but for one audio track, no other plugins but 'Neutron'. I suppose it could be a problem with Neutron. I do get slow GUI response at other times in general. The eight CPU meters in Sonar are all bouncing in the bottom 1/4~1/8 of the scale. Until i load Neutron - then the meters freeze with the rest of the GUI or go blank. This is why i'm wondering if i should upgrade something - if it isn't the video card, great - could it be my PC?. I have access to another PC exactly the same but with less 'stuff' on it - i could try that PC or just go for a nice new 2016~17 PC if that will improve Sonar X3 and beyond performance. It would be great to know how others are getting along with their olderish 2012-13 mid-priced PCs / win7, or is it time to get current hardware?
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Lynn
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 16:16:05
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I'm running a 2009 computer with first generation i7 and it's doing very well. I doubt it's your processor. What about your audio converter? Which version of windows are you running? Try checking if you have the latest drivers. Best of luck.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 16:16:19
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Even a first gen quad core i7 shouldn't behave like this. I have read that there are issues with Neutron, specifically the "track assistant" function, but while I got it a while back I've been too busy to use it much. IIRC using the VST3 instead of 2 solved the problems. Or perhaps the other way around, it's worth swapping and checking at least.
You don't say what interface you're using or what drivers. Also, do you happen to own other DAWs like Ableton Live, StudioOne, Reaper or Audacity to see if they display similar problems under similar conditions?
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paulo
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 16:24:05
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QuadCore Thanks, Sanderxpander. So i guess it's not the video card. It's funny - the audio continues, while the Sonar GUI screen stalls and response from mouse/key clicks is greatly delayed. Eventually it gets so far behind my clicks that i have to abort the program. It happens even in an empty project but for one audio track, no other plugins but 'Neutron'. I suppose it could be a problem with Neutron. I do get slow GUI response at other times in general. The eight CPU meters in Sonar are all bouncing in the bottom 1/4~1/8 of the scale. Until i load Neutron - then the meters freeze with the rest of the GUI or go blank. This is why i'm wondering if i should upgrade something - if it isn't the video card, great - could it be my PC?. I have access to another PC exactly the same but with less 'stuff' on it - i could try that PC or just go for a nice new 2016~17 PC if that will improve Sonar X3 and beyond performance. It would be great to know how others are getting along with their olderish 2012-13 mid-priced PCs / win7, or is it time to get current hardware?
My pc is the equivalent of your pc's grandad and it works fine for me now since I ditched the vst2 dlls, so unless something in yours is failing then I don't think that pc "age" is your issue.
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microapp
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 16:43:13
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I have an ATI 6250 card w/1GB running 3 HD monitors. I think I paid $50 for the card. This is more than enough for Sonar if you are not doing music for video. Drawing the Sonar screen even on 3 monitors is a trivial task for even a basic video card. I used the same video setup in an 8 yr old Core2 Duo 3Mhz E8400 for most of the Sonar X series. The following are some things we need to know before trying to answer. Which audio devices are you using? Have you disabled any audio devices (e.g. HDMI) associated with the GT240. Are your drivers current for both audio and video? Are you using ASIO mode for audio? What are your buffer settings? How much RAM do you have? Are you streaming sample data from Kontakt or other sample players? If so are the samples on a separate HDD? Are you recording to an external HDD?
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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ampfixer
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 17:26:23
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From what the OP describes I think there's something glitching in the video system. While the card may have enough raw power there could be issues with the drivers. I recall something about Sonar needing a certain version of Open GL for proper performance. It's definitely worth digging deeper.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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QuadCore
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 17:58:33
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Thanks y'all. Not the PC getting old - great! microapp, thanks, here's the answers: What are your buffer settings? - 512 samples, playback I/O cashing 2048, record I/O cashing 2048 (is that OK?)
How much RAM do you have? - 12G Which audio devices are you using? - RME UCX - Win7 64Pro. Are you using ASIO mode for audio? - Yes Are you recording to an external HDD? - No. I run Sonar on c: drive and record to extra internal g: drive. Are you streaming sample data from Kontakt or other sample players? - No. happens on virtually empty project. Have you disabled any audio devices (e.g. HDMI) associated with the GT240. - Not that i know of - hasn't been a problem. Are your drivers current for both audio and video? - Not yet (usually my last resort as it has rarely helped me)
Maybe i just have too much going on in the background - but I'm not sure how to find stuff and shut it down, or what i may need to keep running. Or maybe it is the plugin - I'm trying the VST3 install of Neutron, latest version.
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QuadCore
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 18:02:59
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ampfixer From what the OP describes I think there's something glitching in the video system. While the card may have enough raw power there could be issues with the drivers. I recall something about Sonar needing a certain version of Open GL for proper performance. It's definitely worth digging deeper.
Thanks, ampfixer. I'll take a look at this. However, so far i find no results when looking for 'Open GL' in a Sonar forum search. I have a feeling you might be right - i've had a number of crashes while streaming net video with FireFox.
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microapp
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 18:21:41
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I don't think Firefox uses openGL. That is usually a gaming thing. I would see if new video drivers are available, then try latency monitor and see if anything is stealing processing time. http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon Task Manager 'processes' would show if some service is running of which you are unaware.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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QuadCore
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 20:38:07
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Thanks for the link to the performance test, microapp. Here's the results so far - Some meters in the far red, one is full scale - would post image but can't find link to upload images. There was also a report - video card does come up in the report along with a ton of other stuff, even though i only have what i need in the windows start up feature. So here's part of the report file from the test: ... MEASURED INTERRUPT TO USER PROCESS LATENCIES _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ The interrupt to process latency reflects the measured interval that a usermode process needed to respond to a hardware request from the moment the interrupt service routine started execution. This includes the scheduling and execution of a DPC routine, the signaling of an event and the waking up of a usermode thread from an idle wait state in response to that event. Highest measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 3726.043589 Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs): 5.182842 Highest measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 119.154203 Average measured interrupt to DPC latency (µs): 0.723663 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ REPORTED ISRs _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Interrupt service routines are routines installed by the OS and device drivers that execute in response to a hardware interrupt signal. Highest ISR routine execution time (µs): 538.128894 Driver with highest ISR routine execution time: dxgkrnl.sys - DirectX Graphics Kernel, Microsoft Corporation Highest reported total ISR routine time (%): 0.065223 Driver with highest ISR total time: hal.dll - Hardware Abstraction Layer DLL, Microsoft Corporation Total time spent in ISRs (%) 0.157338 ISR count (execution time <250 µs): 396309 ISR count (execution time 250-500 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 500-999 µs): 3 ISR count (execution time 1000-1999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time 2000-3999 µs): 0 ISR count (execution time >=4000 µs): 0 ... There is something called a 'Rapport Management System' on the list under 'processes' - this 'Rapport' thing is something that i uninstalled last year when i discovered it was responsible for giving Sonar constant hiccups. It took ages to figure it out because a system restore would fix the hiccups, but only for a while, because 'rapport' would mysteriously reappear at some point without my knowing. The first time it reappeared there it was, just sitting there in my tray smirking at me, threatening me with menace, invading my space, uninvited. A chill ran down my spine - 'Is that 'rapport' icon a devil's head?' as visions of viruses flashed though my mind. I finally figured out that it showed up right after a Win7 scheduled system update. So i shut off system updates and never looked back. But then found that i had a thousand system updates to get done so i temporarily allowed system updates and the dirty rapport got back in. So your program has already paid off microapp - but it may not be related to my present problems with Certain plugins - I am about to try. I will also unload a bunch of data from the program drive C: because it is past 3/4 full.
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...wicked
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/29 21:30:51
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Twice now I have upgraded an old but decent video card and seen significant performance improvements in SONAR. Like, serious changes for the better.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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Sanderxpander
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 00:54:20
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I would also really recommend running the latest firmware and drivers on your RME card. I love the UCX by the way, I have one too.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 04:19:46
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It's funny - the audio continues, while the Sonar GUI screen stalls and response from mouse/key clicks is greatly delayed. The only time I've ever seen anything like this was when I had inadvertently hit the pause key on my keyboard.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Hatstand
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 04:45:03
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I have had a similar issue like this and it turned out to be a rogue plugin that didn't like the 64 bit double precision engine. You could try turning it off under edit/preferences/driver settings. If this fixes it then it will be a case of hunting down which plugin doesn't like it. If it doesn't then it could be just that you are running close to the maximum your system can handle. Neutron is pretty heavy on CPU especially if you stack up instances of it. I currently have a 72 track project with around 10 separate instances of Neutron running ( as well as a number of other plugs) and it is just clinging on by its fingertips
Sonar Platinum - Windows 10 Pro 64bit - AMD FX 8150 processor - 16Gb RAM - 27" Monitor (it's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it)
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patm300e
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 06:53:24
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SPLAT on a Home built i3 16 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Home Premium 120GB SSD (OS) 2TB Data Drive. Behringer XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. FaderPort control.
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microapp
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 12:41:17
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Rapport Management service is installed by a program called Trusteer which provides secure communications between companies (like banks). Is this something for your work ? If not, see if Trusteer is installed and uninstall it.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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ampfixer
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 12:44:00
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My next move on this problem would be to run CCleaner and Malwarebytes. It sounds like the OP's system is bunged up with all sorts of stuff. Get all the updates done, check the system with Malwarebytes and finally clean it all up with CCleaner. IT's all available using free versions. After all that is done run the DPC monitor again to see if there are improvements. If there's something installed on my system and I didn't put it there, I kill it. Of course that's after I've ensured that it's not a system driver.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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microapp
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 15:20:24
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ampfixer My next move on this problem would be to run CCleaner and Malwarebytes. It sounds like the OP's system is bunged up with all sorts of stuff. Get all the updates done, check the system with Malwarebytes and finally clean it all up with CCleaner. IT's all available using free versions. After all that is done run the DPC monitor again to see if there are improvements. If there's something installed on my system and I didn't put it there, I kill it. Of course that's after I've ensured that it's not a system driver.
CCleaner is prob a good idea. Be careful with it tho. I usually only use it to remove unwanted registry items. Malwarebytes should be run periodically at least once a month if not more often. I also look at the running services and installed programs and kill anything I did not specifically install (after investigating of course). If you use the DAW PC for other things, all the above should be done religiously.
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
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ampfixer
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Re: My i7QC2.6GHz. 2013 DAW can't quite keep up... or is it my 2013 GeForce GT240?
2016/12/30 18:47:31
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Mine is a multi-use machine so I keep an eye on it and do regular backups. I almost never have an issue with Sonar misbehaving.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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