williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 10:20:52
(permalink)
tlw
SilverBlueMedallion
MIDI data recorded all over the place that shouldn't be, etc...
I don't have that problem.
Wonder what I'm doing wrong?
What are you doing wrong? Almost certainly, you are not a heavy midi user. Midi all over the place might be the single "feature" of Sonar since the X series. It's possible that much of it can be twisted to be user error: Oh, you didn't notice that Sonar changes your selection range when you insert a new track? That's user error. Oh, you didn't notice that Sonar changes your selection range when you use Edit-Cut for a midi segment selected by time? That's user error. Just two of many causes, there are far more than these. But midi data all over the place is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
|
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 10:24:43
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby AdamGrossmanLG 2017/03/07 16:19:51
I tried to respond to individual messages, got too many quotes in quotes.
Simply: Adam, you are not wrong. (Nor are you entirely right -- some of your comments show a bit of ignorance "how things work" in Sonar)
And the same gang of forum bullies treat your post just as they have treated some of mine over the years. It's almost amusing to read the same thing from the same people; you'd think they kept canned replies ready.
I don't know what to advise; I own and use SoundForge and Cubase and Samplitude and even a trial copy of Studio One, and have tried others too. Like you, I have years of experience and habits which lead me to continue to use Sonar, though I've modified the flow so I rarely use it alone.
For the 'new specialist in midi': two things: SELECTION CRITERIA and MIDI CHANNELS. Sonor is so screwed up in these two areas of midi that it desperately needs help. If you can manage to persuade the old guard that 'envelopes' should be restricted to audio, that might be a start.
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 12:28:48
(permalink)
AdamGrossmanLG
kitekrazy1
bitman
If you are leaving, just leave. Don't stand there with the door half closed looking back saying "I'm leeeaaavvving" - does anybody (sniffle) care? 
Seriously? With all the DAWs out there, just go make yourself happy. You can bad mouth us all from over there in their forum.
I hate posts like this. It's like "since you refuse to be part of our fanboy club get out". It's so reminiscence of what this forum use to be and it's reputation was known to outside users. Ever heard "beat down Sonar style"? A phrase used some years ago in other forums.
totally agree. I posted this to hopefully get the bakers attention and for users to read. Not to piss anyone off.
Its amazing how emotionally attached some people get to their DAW...as if I am insulting their mother's cooking.
But didn't you yourself say that you had contact via PMs with Cakewalk staff to resolve problems and yet you feel the need to create A post like this to get their attention. I don't understand. It seems a bit rude.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2186
- Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
- Location: Qld, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 15:11:08
(permalink)
williamcopper
And the same gang of forum bullies treat your post just as they have treated some of mine over the years.
Granted there are some very passionate defenders of Sonar here, but there are also those who lurk in the shadows just waiting for an opportunity to say something negative and then come out swinging. Which one is the bully is just a matter of opinion I guess:) All in all this forum seems a pretty friendly place to me.
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 16:25:11
(permalink)
yep. it IS always the same people who get butthurt over the fact that their favorite DAW is not someone else's favorite DAW.
To be honest, the only reason I am still using Sonar is because my projects I am working on are in Sonar plus right now, I don't feel like learning a new DAW.... but still MIDI issues persist.
There's just so much wrong, and 'williamcopper' makes a great point.... everything is "user error".... I should just know that Cakewalk doesn't act intuitively with Sonar, right? So when it doesn't, it is USER error!
Every project, eventually if I have enough MIDI tracks and things going on, eventually somewhere MIDI messages from one track is bleeding into another.... it should just WORK RIGHT!
An option to have the MIDI input actually set to NONE as default would be nice or to the keyboard controller of your choice... NOT MIDI OMNI as it starts to receive messages from say an instance of Kirnu Cream on it or notes from a softsynth with MIDI Out enabled.
That, along with patches after unfreeze not restoring properly, and a bunch of other things... really makes Sonar the worst in the market when it comes to MIDI implementation.
|
BobF
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8124
- Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
- Location: Missouri - USA
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 16:32:51
(permalink)
AdamGrossmanLG
An option to have the MIDI input actually set to NONE as default would be nice or to the keyboard controller of your choice... NOT MIDI OMNI as it starts to receive messages from say an instance of Kirnu Cream on it or notes from a softsynth with MIDI Out enabled.
I've been asking for this for years. I've also recently discovered at least one other top tier DAW that fails to persist a setting of NONE for the input selection to MIDI tracks. I really don't understand ... Maybe with the recent changes to MIDI port handling, this will become possible.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 16:46:31
(permalink)
I am a huge cakewalk Fanboy (no surprise there  ). Your comments don't bother me, nor do I feel like lashing out, being a bully. My suggestions has (and always will) be the same... if your not happy, use something else. I jumped ship once, but found myself back here because I realized the other DAW I was using was less reliable than Sonar. I never saw this forum as a place to come air out my beef's with Sonar (Use twitter or Facebook for that  ) I've always thought about this as a place to share ideas, learn new things and help others. But you cant blame some for not wanting to hear your story broadcasted over the forum. Imagine leaving a restaurant and saying "Im outta here cause the food isn't good". Would you call others bully's because they might turn to you and say "Then leave". you probably wouldn't. So a case can be made for those leaving dear John letters. Just move on and be happy. . If it makes you feel better to air it out than I hope it helped. What ever you end up doing, make good music and be happy. Good luck and I mean that sincerely. Chuck
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 16:58:37
(permalink)
MIDI is an antiquated 8-bit architecture that got revived by the power of VSTis. In even a 32-bit world, what exists at interface points (required) could be turned into a powerhouse inside any DAW, but not a lot has been done there. I would wager that most users play a small number of live instruments and the rest are VSTi. There is a vast frontier for innovation to host VSTis in a manner consistent with the architecture available.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 17:19:02
(permalink)
Fair enough chuckebaby. I understand and appreciate your point. I guess I just feel like openness and honesty without filtering or being politically correct is the route I like to go. I think forums are best served with PURE emotions, feelings, thoughts and ideas.
I have a history on this forum and none of it is like what it is in this thread, this was my one-off and I felt it was OK to do so. I certainly didn't expect the backlash.
Personally, you have always been helpful, infact I am a subscriber of your Youtube channel. Good stuff on there, you taught me all about templates :)
I always appreciate the help on here and I try to help others when I can as well.
The point of this thread was to hopefully raise awareness to LONG RUNNING problems with Cakewalk's MIDI implementation. If I made just another small post that dissapears in a day or two, it wouldn't even get any traction or any possibility of getting noticed.
This thread however is STILL going strong, so while I might have rustled a few feathers, I hope to MAYBE get the Baker's attention in regards to the MIDI implementation in this product.
I will say this... for AUDIO, Sonar I feel is one of the BEST products... when working with audio (tracking, editing, mixing, etc...) Sonar is 2nd to none... (and I expect it to even get better once ripple editing gets implemented), BUT for MIDI, it is still one of the worst.
I am just being honest. That is the view from my horse anyway.
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 18:34:42
(permalink)
It seems like long standing issues are the hardest ones for the developers to sort out.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
pwalpwal
Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3249
- Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 18:47:12
(permalink)
ampfixer
It seems like long standing issues are the hardest ones for the developers to sort out.
if they're embedded deep down in old code then to make any changes could have a big impact throughout the app
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 19:42:37
(permalink)
pwalpwal
ampfixer
It seems like long standing issues are the hardest ones for the developers to sort out.
if they're embedded deep down in old code then to make any changes could have a big impact throughout the app
Yep, the ripple effect that nobody wants
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 20:25:36
(permalink)
pwalpwal
ampfixer
It seems like long standing issues are the hardest ones for the developers to sort out.
if they're embedded deep down in old code then to make any changes could have a big impact throughout the app
that would be a GOOD thing. I believe they are running off of VERY old code.. even the way the app feels. It feels so clunky and module based compared to say Studio One or FL Studio. Try installing one of those. It just runs so smooth, like its built on a new platform or something. Having said that, someone from Cakewalk said they are working on improving the GUI.
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 21:01:03
(permalink)
FWIW I don't believe that.
From what I read the codebase was substantially re-written for the launch of the X series.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5508
- Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
- Location: Ontario
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 21:12:30
(permalink)
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 22:08:26
(permalink)
ampfixer
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
I want it to let me do my work, but why not have a smooth workflow and things that work right? being complacent does not bring change.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 22:40:15
(permalink)
AdamGrossmanLG
ampfixer
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
I want it to let me do my work, but why not have a smooth workflow and things that work right? being complacent does not bring change.
Cakewalk provides updates and bug fixes every month. I think most people consider that as bringing change..
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 22:44:53
(permalink)
Anderton
AdamGrossmanLG
ampfixer
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
I want it to let me do my work, but why not have a smooth workflow and things that work right? being complacent does not bring change.
Cakewalk provides updates and bug fixes every month. I think most people consider that as bringing change.
except for the long-running MIDI issues I have displayed in my Youtube videos and posts. Oh wait... its user error and/or working as expected ;)
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 22:53:30
(permalink)
AdamGrossmanLG
Anderton
AdamGrossmanLG
ampfixer
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
I want it to let me do my work, but why not have a smooth workflow and things that work right? being complacent does not bring change.
Cakewalk provides updates and bug fixes every month. I think most people consider that as bringing change.
except for the long-running MIDI issues I have displayed in my Youtube videos and posts. Oh wait... its user error and/or working as expected ;)
So it seems based on what you said that you consider changes as representing something other than complacency only if they're the changes you want prioritized. The comping people wanted their changes prioritized, and they got it. The ripple editing people want their changes prioritized, the people who want to try out the Mac alpha want their changes prioritized, etc. The MIDI fans will get their turn too...sooner than you might think.
|
DrLumen
Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
- Total Posts : 621
- Joined: 2005/07/05 20:11:34
- Location: North Texas
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 23:06:07
(permalink)
--post removed - i was in a bad mood while quitting smoking.
post edited by DrLumen - 2017/03/09 20:32:17
-When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Sonar Platinum / Intel i7-4790K / AsRock Z97 / 32GB RAM / Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB / Behringer FCA610 / M-Audio Sport 2x4 / Win7 x64 Pro / WDC Black HDD's / EVO 850 SSD's / Alesis Q88 / Boss DS-330 / Korg nanoKontrol / Novation Launch Control / 14.5" Lava Lamp
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 23:07:21
(permalink)
Anderton
AdamGrossmanLG
Anderton
AdamGrossmanLG
ampfixer
Let's not delve too deep into speculation. We can observe changes to the program and the way Cake conducts their business. Past that it's just opinion and speculation. There are so many real issues in the world today that I put Sonar development way down my personal priority list. I just want it to let me do my work.
I want it to let me do my work, but why not have a smooth workflow and things that work right? being complacent does not bring change.
Cakewalk provides updates and bug fixes every month. I think most people consider that as bringing change.
except for the long-running MIDI issues I have displayed in my Youtube videos and posts. Oh wait... its user error and/or working as expected ;)
So it seems based on what you said that you consider changes as representing something other than complacency only if they're the changes you want prioritized. The comping people wanted their changes prioritized, and they got it. The ripple editing people want their changes prioritized, the people who want to try out the Mac alpha want their changes prioritized, etc. The MIDI fans will get their turn too...sooner than you might think.
Anderton - your attempts to make it seem like my posts are all about "ME ME ME" are not accurate and it is an attempt to undermine some REAL issues facing Cakewalk's MIDI implementation. Like I stated earlier, I feel Cakewalk's maybe the TOP software for audio editing, but maybe the WORST for advanced MIDI editing/programming. I hope the MIDI fans will get there turn too, and I hope my post which seems to have gotten a lot of traction might have influenced the bakers. My goal was not to anger people or cause controversy. I am far from that kind of person, the GOAL though WAS to get baker's attentions. I am glad the bakers are fixing and implementing changes ALL users want... I am not a VIP and do not think of myself as such, I just expect a product that works smoothly and with an intuitive deisgn.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/07 23:58:24
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/03/08 00:31:30
AdamGrossmanLG
Anderton - your attempts to make it seem like my posts are all about "ME ME ME" are not accurate and it is an attempt to undermine some REAL issues facing Cakewalk's MIDI implementation. Saying that Cakewalk has prioritized others' issues over yours does nothing to contradict any of your gripes. If I didn't think there were limitations to Cakewalk's MIDI implementation I wouldn't have suggested rewiring Reason, which you said had a top notch MIDI implementation, into SONAR. We all want great software that works smoothly and has an intuitive design, especially Cakewalk's developers because that would give them a major competitive advantage. However, a few minutes spent on any DAW forum will tell you that so far, that level of performance has been an unattainable goal. So people choose what comes closest - or a combination, e.g., rewiring Reason into SONAR for SONAR users who like Reason's MIDI implementation, or rewiring FL Studio into SONAR for FL fans who are frustrated with its mixing capabilities. I hope the MIDI fans will get there turn too, and I hope my post which seems to have gotten a lot of traction might have influenced the bakers. I can guarantee you it had zero influence. The MIDI improvements that are being implemented have been in the planning for a long time, and have been based on feature requests and problem reports presented through the usual channels. Whether your intention or not, posts with titles like yours are going to be perceived as grandstanding, which gets reinforced when you don't address comments like the ones in post #8, and pre-emptively dismiss comments that may dispute your contentions as coming from people "who get emotionally worked up over a piece of software they didn't even write and/or don't have stock in...always happens." That makes it seem like you were more interested in broadcasting gripes than getting into a dialog about solving your issues. Imagine how different the response would have been if you had titled your post "Does anyone have solutions for the following MIDI issues" and made that the focus of the post instead of venting. In fact a title like that might have attracted a developer's interest. Because any developer would know that the MIDI implementation wasn't going to change for several months later, given that you said you considered it poor and it was going to cause you to leave Cakewalk, you gave no reason whatsoever for a developer to spend time reading your post instead of making fixes.
|
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2567
- Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
- Location: West Midlands, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/08 00:32:05
(permalink)
mettelus
MIDI is an antiquated 8-bit architecture that got revived by the power of VSTis. In even a 32-bit world, what exists at interface points (required) could be turned into a powerhouse inside any DAW, but not a lot has been done there. I would wager that most users play a small number of live instruments and the rest are VSTi. There is a vast frontier for innovation to host VSTis in a manner consistent with the architecture available.
MIDI has persisted because it does what it does very well. The main issue with it is the limited 128-step resolution of 8-bit MIDI and the consequent side-effects of that. A shift to 14-bit MIDI would provide as many steps as anyone is likely to want. Not quite as smooth or continuous as control voltages, but for almost any purpose indistinguishable. The full range of 14-bit MIDI however isn't supported by many, if any, controllers which is perhaps one reason why it hasn't taken off. Sonar does support it, as it happens, and has done for very many versions. However, if every control on every synth were to use the full 16383 step range of 14-bit MIDI the leap in processing required compared to 8-bit would be pretty heavy. To the point where freezing lots of tracks to reduce cpu load would become commonplace again. If you're contemplating a synth/plugin control protocol that uses even more bits than 14 for each continuous controller (and any digital control system uses bits to do the job) then the processing power required rises exponentially. And along with it come issues around MIDI and audio buffer sizes to allow the DAW, cpu and PCI bus to keep up while also allowing time for the operating system etc. to do its thing. Many synths, hardware and software, have dozens of controllable parameters and each would require its share of available cpu time. And, of course, you'd need the digital plugin makers to agree about and adopt a coherent new system or, far worse, each come up with their own. Then find some way to turn what comes out of an 8-bit MIDI controller into whatever the plugin coder chose to use for the plugin in question. And no matter how many bits the software could handle, the controller could still only send 128 values.....
Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board, ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre. Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
|
doriginal
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 155
- Joined: 2009/02/22 08:27:48
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/08 01:12:26
(permalink)
Cubase or any other DAW that uses a dongle is pure crap. I am still have problems with the dongles and then you have no choice but to buy the dongle again. It is a pure nightmare. Cubase is a really big no! I have Reason and I like it as an idea machine. When you compare the sound quality you will wish that you could put back on Sonar. I also have Studio One which I think you will like. There are some great things there and the midi as awesome in my opinion. The only thing I hate about studio one is that the load time is not as fast as Sonar's and if you have old plugins they probably won't work. Also, You have to keep your keyboard in because it looks for it. It is kind of annoying but you will have your midi and great sound quality. Sonar keeps getting better and it still is my DAW of choice. I am just giving you the pro's and con's of other DAW's.
Intel core i7 2600 3.4 GHz 64 Bit 16 GB of Memory, Sonar Platinum ,OS Windows 10 Professional, Sound Card: Komplete Audio 6, Controller: M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
|
AdamGrossmanLG
Max Output Level: -62 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1436
- Joined: 2014/07/13 03:40:34
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/08 01:14:57
(permalink)
Anderton
AdamGrossmanLG
Anderton - your attempts to make it seem like my posts are all about "ME ME ME" are not accurate and it is an attempt to undermine some REAL issues facing Cakewalk's MIDI implementation.
Saying that Cakewalk has prioritized others' issues over yours does nothing to contradict any of your gripes.
If I didn't think there were limitations to Cakewalk's MIDI implementation I wouldn't have suggested rewiring Reason, which you said had a top notch MIDI implementation, into SONAR.
We all want great software that works smoothly and has an intuitive design, especially Cakewalk's developers because that would give them a major competitive advantage. However, a few minutes spent on any DAW forum will tell you that so far, that level of performance has been an unattainable goal. So people choose what comes closest - or a combination, e.g., rewiring Reason into SONAR for SONAR users who like Reason's MIDI implementation, or rewiring FL Studio into SONAR for FL fans who are frustrated with its mixing capabilities.
I hope the MIDI fans will get there turn too, and I hope my post which seems to have gotten a lot of traction might have influenced the bakers.
I can guarantee you it had zero influence. The MIDI improvements that are being implemented have been in the planning for a long time, and have been based on feature requests and problem reports presented through the usual channels.
Whether your intention or not, posts with titles like yours are going to be perceived as grandstanding, which gets reinforced when you don't address comments like the ones in post #8, and pre-emptively dismiss comments that may dispute your contentions as coming from people "who get emotionally worked up over a piece of software they didn't even write and/or don't have stock in...always happens." That makes it seem like you were more interested in broadcasting gripes than getting into a dialog about solving your issues.
Imagine how different the response would have been if you had titled your post "Does anyone have solutions for the following MIDI issues" and made that the focus of the post instead of venting. In fact a title like that might have attracted a developer's interest. Because any developer would know that the MIDI implementation wasn't going to change for several months later, given that you said you considered it poor and it was going to cause you to leave Cakewalk, you gave no reason whatsoever for a developer to spend time reading your post instead of making fixes.
fair enough, I see your point. I am sorry I didn't post differently then. I posted that thread when I lost some critical patches for songs I have and never (to this day) was able to get them sounding just right again. I was extremely frustrated and lost my cool. That post was only a sliver of what i was actually feeling inside. I will apologize if my posts have been too harsh in tone. Also you are right, text you can't emote and use body language, so maybe I do need to fine tune how I speak out loud vs posting. thank you for putting up with me throughout this thread. And I will say as soon as Sonar fixes some of these MIDI issues, I think it will be one of the best DAW's out there.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Poor MIDI Implementation Is Going To Cause Me To Leave Cakewalk
2017/03/08 01:29:48
(permalink)
Had to log into the computer so I can actually type. I understand your point, but I am not speaking of a "spec" by any means... hence no worry for buy-in, vendor support, etc. so long as they conform the the existing spec (which can be assumed that most do).
An audio analogy might be a better description... 24-bit in, 24-bit out (audio interface limitation). These are "set," but there is nothing limiting DAW processing to 32, 64, or even higher... it just needs to hit the AI as something recognizable. And we have that now (yay). For MIDI, there is also no limitation to how a DAW augments the data (proprietary, internal to the DAW only) so long as it "sockets" well at both ends. The MIDI routing, complexity, etc. could be embellished substantially (some exists now, to be sure, but not to the extent of what is possible). The DAW can take the 8-bit input, absorb it into a word/dword, do "funky stuff" with it internally, and then deliver it back to another VSTi as 8-bit.
Routing is good example, in that the DAW sees a VSTi generating MIDI out, but "intercepts" it to provide precision routing. There is no reason internal to any DAW that "unlimited channels" isn't possible... compared to "unlimited tracks" this would be simple.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|