AdamGrossmanLG
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NRPN vs CC ??
I notice when controlling a softsynth I can choose NRPN or CC. Is there a difference between the 2 and should I use one or the other?
Thanks!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 21:49:20
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NRPN requires more data and is sometimes slower to be processed. Not actually sure if the latter goes for softsynths. CC#s directly access a parameter so unless you have some reason to pick NRPN I would usually go with that.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 21:50:03
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to add to that... how about automation lanes to control softsynths? I see that doesn't even work off of CC or NRPN. I would like to know the pros and cons of each. Thank you!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 21:52:57
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It all depends on what you mean by "controlling a softsynth". If you're programming parts and you need to modify a parameter over time then an automation lane is convenient. If you want to twist a knob you'll need a controller with an assignable knob. CC#s will be much easier to set up than NRPN in that case (if the controller supports sending NRPN data at all).
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bitflipper
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:03:51
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☄ Helpfulby AdamGrossmanLG 2017/03/05 22:21:40
There is technically no difference between an NRPN and a CC. The difference is that NRPNs have no definition in the MIDI spec. They are there to allow synth vendors to extend the standard spec by adding their own product-specific commands. This means they usually include some additional data after the command byte, whereas CCs generally add only a single byte, or none at all. With each NRPN command requiring 2 to 3 times as many bits as a CC, I'd be reluctant to use them for continuous automation, although in practice that overhead might not be significant.
So why select one over the other when both options are available? Probably because the NRPN offers more control, such as delay and feedback parameters to a chorus effect rather than just the chorus mix that CC#93 provides. Why not use them? Because they are instrument/effect-specific, which will make it difficult to substitute another synth or effect in an existing track.
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promidi
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:15:12
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One other thing to be mindful of with NRPNs is that sending these events to some synths silences those synths. The only way to recover is to reload that synth. I know Rapture Pro does this.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:22:24
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thank you all for the replies. What about automation lanes or CC data? pros/cons?
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scook
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:25:21
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☄ Helpfulby Rob[at]Sound-Rehab 2017/03/06 08:28:22
NRPNs silence all the Cakewalk sfz engine synths. To prevent this from happening, check the "Do not intercept NRPNs" setting in their plug-in properties 
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gustabo
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:42:55
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Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis. 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:47:30
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☄ Helpfulby AdamGrossmanLG 2017/03/06 00:10:34
Wow. That's pretty bad behavior. Good to know, thanks Scook and Promidi.
To the OP, CC#s can be recorded from most generic midi controllers so they are a good choice if you have a physical knob or slider you want to use. Automation lanes are more convenient when you want to draw precise values or when you want to edit sections later on. They also let you select parameters more easily because they're named automatically.
It would be easier to give more specific advice if you gave an example of what you want to do.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/05 22:48:57
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Oh dammit one of those guys.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 00:14:20
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gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion? Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are. now... go be gone.
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tlw
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 00:28:27
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☄ Helpfulby AdamGrossmanLG 2017/03/06 00:34:26
Sometimes NRPNs are necessary, such as when the synth designer implemented a function that uses more than the 128 steps allowed by "conventional" 8-bit MIDI, and 14-bit MIDI is used instead. E.g the DSI Mopho's MIDI-controlled filter cutoff frequency has 160 steps rather than the usual 128 to allow finer gradation and less "stepping" at higher frequencies.
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gustabo
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 01:53:54
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AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion?
Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are.
now... go be gone.
Lol! Too bad you're not a man of your word and left (according to your declaration post http://forum.cakewalk.com/Poor-MIDI-Implementation-Is-Going-To-Cause-Me-To-Leave-Cakewalk-m3540421.aspx ) after offending so many people while under your last username/avatar combination...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
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gustabo
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 02:05:09
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AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion?
Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are.
now... go be gone.
Lol! I see you didn't keep your word after your declaration post ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/Poor-MIDI-Implementation-Is-Going-To-Cause-Me-To-Leave-Cakewalk-m3540421.aspx ) when you alienated so many forum members under your last username/avatar combination.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 02:34:55
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gustabo
AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion?
Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are.
now... go be gone.
Lol!
I see you didn't keep your word after your declaration post ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/Poor-MIDI-Implementation-Is-Going-To-Cause-Me-To-Leave-Cakewalk-m3540421.aspx ) when you alienated so many forum members under your last username/avatar combination.
its funny, you are like the only user that likes to veer off into personal territory. You can't just keep to yourself, can you? because I have some gripes with your favorite software? grow up. Why not just stick to the technical side of things here? that is what we are all here for. Not to have it shoved in our faces that we made a similar post in a stupid unofficial facebook group 2 month ago with a screenshot. Something seems really unstable with you. I request you cease and desist from writing to me.
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gustabo
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 02:37:03
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AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion?
Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are.
now... go be gone.
Lol!
I see you didn't keep your word after your declaration post ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/Poor-MIDI-Implementation-Is-Going-To-Cause-Me-To-Leave-Cakewalk-m3540421.aspx ) when you alienated so many forum members under your last username/avatar combination.
its funny, you are like the only user that likes to veer off into personal territory. You can't just keep to yourself, can you? because I have some gripes with your favorite software? grow up.
Why not just stick to the technical side of things here? that is what we are all here for. Not to have it shoved in our faces that we made a similar post in a stupid unofficial facebook group 2 month ago with a screenshot.
Something seems really unstable with you. I request you cease and desist from writing to me.
Ironic that I post a screen shot of the answers you received to try to help you since you don't have access to them anymore and you try to insult me...
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3
M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps
Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad
Adam A7X - Behritone C50A
PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 04:11:34
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gustabo
AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
AdamGrossmanLG
gustabo
Same answer as the last time you asked in the fb group on January 5th, Adam Lewis.
oh the facebook group you kicked me out of because your feelings got hurt that Sonar isn't the best DAW out there in my opinion?
Oh well... pointless group as we have this forum anyway... don't need 2 places to ask a question. Your little group offered nothing unique to the table. This forum rocks because of members like bitflipper, scook, Sanderxpander and many other helpful and kind people out there who aren't so emotionally attached to their favorite DAW like you are.
now... go be gone.
Lol!
I see you didn't keep your word after your declaration post ( http://forum.cakewalk.com/Poor-MIDI-Implementation-Is-Going-To-Cause-Me-To-Leave-Cakewalk-m3540421.aspx ) when you alienated so many forum members under your last username/avatar combination.
its funny, you are like the only user that likes to veer off into personal territory. You can't just keep to yourself, can you? because I have some gripes with your favorite software? grow up.
Why not just stick to the technical side of things here? that is what we are all here for. Not to have it shoved in our faces that we made a similar post in a stupid unofficial facebook group 2 month ago with a screenshot.
Something seems really unstable with you. I request you cease and desist from writing to me.
Ironic that I post a screen shot of the answers you received to try to help you since you don't have access to them anymore and you try to insult me...
nice one, but your goal was NOT to help me. If that was your goal, you wouldn't have BLOCKED me from your little facebook page. your GOAL was to try and make me look stupid by repeating the same question (hence the screenshot and your choice of wording).
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 08:48:13
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Still begs the question why you needed to ask the same thing twice. You got a competent (and very similar) answer the first time.
No offense, I don't know you from Adam (Badum-tish!) but we get folks in here sometimes that like to give helpful forumites the run-around and that is never well received.
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bitflipper
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 14:29:15
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Let's constrain this topic to NRPNs, CCs and MIDI, OK?
Think about everyone else who's reading this, folks with no stake in any personal feuds and are just here to try and glean some useful information.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Sanderxpander
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 14:46:33
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Very true. And again, I don't know Adam. Hopefully his questions are answered sufficiently.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: NRPN vs CC ??
2017/03/06 14:57:36
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True, I am sorry. I should not have responded to gustabo personally like that on the forum. my apologies. Thank you everyone for helping me out though. As always - it is much appreciated.
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