Dilaco1
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LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
I tried using the LP EQ (not the older LP-64, but the newer one) on the master bus, and as soon as I inserted it I noticed that my AD drums had over half the hits become inaudible. I raised my buffer size from 256 to 512 (both in Sonar and on my RME Fireface), and some missing hits returned, but not all - still some missing. Tried buffer size 1024 and still the odd missing sample... As soon as I took the LP EQ off the master bus everything was fine again. CPU usage reading as only about 7% for whole project. Not a big project - actually just a demo project trying out different plugins, only a few tracks. I use AD drums in all my projects requiring drums, never a problem. I create much larger projects without a problem. I never go over 256 buffer size unless doing huge orchestral projects. Anyone else had similar issues with this plugin?
Cakewalk by Bandlab; RME Fireface 800 audio interface; Windows 7 (64bit);
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gswitz
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/23 00:16:16
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StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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eternalbeat
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/27 00:21:29
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FWIW i had the same problem, until disabling that plugin, all works fine now.
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35mm
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/27 00:33:57
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I had the same problem. LP EQ and LP MB can introduce latency. The issue is easily fixed by increasing the midi buffer size.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/27 19:19:56
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And don't use it on every channel. That's not what it was designed for.
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35mm
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/27 19:54:14
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Bristol_Jonesey And don't use it on every channel. That's not what it was designed for.
Yes, this is a good point. LPEQ & LPMB are really intended as mix/master tools rather than general tracking tools.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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interpolated
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/27 20:23:20
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I find them good to work with although a bit intensive, perhaps a minimum phase option could be added later to lighten the load or indeed does it do this already. If you go into the Expert settings and turn the mode to Non-Linear that should save CPU cycles. One instance of LP EQ cost around 1.x% audio time in non-linear mode. In High Linear it was only marginally higher by about 0.4%. LP MB cost around 4.6% here in non-linear mode with High Linear mode being around 6.5% so definitely not one to throw on tracks casually unless you are running some sort of super hybrid studio DAW workstation. By the way, I am using an Athlon x6 3200Mhz, 8GB of PC1600 RAM and a Focusrite ASIO driver.
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Dilaco1
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/28 00:03:58
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I put it on the master bus only. Only one instance. No spike in CPU. I raised buffers as described in original post. No effect. It was only a small demo file of a few tracks. Like I said, I have run much larger projects on my machine with lots of plugins (most third party) with no problem. It is simply a case of: Addictive Drums hums along fine; I put the LP EQ on the master bus and samples go missing; I take LP off the bus and everything’s fine.
Cakewalk by Bandlab; RME Fireface 800 audio interface; Windows 7 (64bit);
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gustabo
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/28 10:53:32
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Dilaco1 I put it on the master bus only. Only one instance. No spike in CPU. I raised buffers as described in original post. No effect. It was only a small demo file of a few tracks. Like I said, I have run much larger projects on my machine with lots of plugins (most third party) with no problem. It is simply a case of: Addictive Drums hums along fine; I put the LP EQ on the master bus and samples go missing; I take LP off the bus and everything’s fine.
But did you raise your midi buffer lookahead to 500ms??? Not the same as audio buffers.
Cakewalk by Bandlab - Win10 Pro x64 - StudioCat Platinum Studio DAW - 32 GB Ram - MOTU UltraLite-mk3 M-Audio Keystation 88ES - Akai MPD26 (hot-rodded) - Alesis DM10 - a few guitars, a few amps Novation Launch Control - Korg nanoKONTROL2 - PreSonus FaderPort - DAW Remote HD on iPad Adam A7X - Behritone C50A PreSonus Monitor Station v2 (controlling the mons) https://www.facebook.com/groups/sonarusergroup/
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msorrels
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/28 12:01:08
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Since the LP EQ has about 490ms of delay I think you need to have your MIDI prepare buffers set to at least twice that in order to insure your soft synths don't miss notes. So I think 1000ms would be the lowest I'd go with (I personally use 2500 but that is because I got tired of messing with it). And again this isn't the ASIO buffer settings or anything to do with the audio device you are using. Set it the preferences under MIDI->Playback and Recording. "Prepare Using XXXXX Millisecond Buffers".
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bitflipper
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/28 13:29:02
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^^^ There's your solution. The issue isn't unique to the LPEQ, but can occur with any linear-phase equalizer. One of many reasons behind the time-honored best-practice of holding off on mastering until the tracking phase is complete. Ideally, when you enter the mastering phase you're working exclusively with audio. (The operative word is "ideally". I violate the rule often!)
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msorrels
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/28 13:54:39
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2017/07/28 19:03:38
Just for the sake of science I made a test loop of snare hits on 16th notes with Addictive Drum 2 and looped it about 16 bars. I set the tempo to 300bpm (yes I wanted to push it). And added the LP EQ to the audio out track and loaded the 7 band initial setup (but moved none of the controls just the flat default). Without the LP EQ you can hear a very clear pattern. Turn on LP EQ and then try various MIDI buffers. At 250ms (the SONAR default) it missed numerous hits. At 500ms it still misses a lot of hits, not as many but very noticeable. At 1000ms it sounded the same. At 2500ms it was also perfect. I really think SONAR should change how it works so that the MIDI prepare buffers is internally set to twice the computed audio latency or what the user specifies, which ever is highest. That way this problem goes away and no matter how much delay I stick in the audio chain no MIDI notes will get skipped. Too bad it's clearly a feature too far.
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Dilaco1
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/30 00:57:50
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Thanks everyone for your enlightening suggestions. Raising MIDI buffer times is something I confess to have known little about. I had thought that doing so would make the MIDI tracks lag behind, as the buffer is measured in milliseconds. 1000 ms sounds like a lot. So I did some tests bouncing to track an Addictive Drums clip, and then playing it back alongside the un-rendered AD MIDI track. I bounced with the MIDI buffer at 250. I played back and there was no phasing between the two tracks (flipping the phase on the audio track cancelled some of the audio, with some still passing through). Then I raised the MIDI buffer to 1000ms and played back. I couldn’t hear any difference. There was no phasing. So I will be keeping the MIDI buffer higher than the default, maybe at 500? By the way, my original post was really to find out if the LP EQ was buggy or had issues because I was looking at buying a professional mastering EQ. Normally I wouldn’t master MIDI – that is, I wouldn’t do a final master with un-rendered MIDI tracks. I was just doing a demo with different plugins, and it was the first time I have tried the LP EQ. Maybe I will use the LP EQ after all instead of spending more money...
Cakewalk by Bandlab; RME Fireface 800 audio interface; Windows 7 (64bit);
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abacab
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Re: LP EQ causing missing AD drum samples
2017/07/30 02:07:27
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The easy answer is easy. Just set the LP EQ precision (Expert mode) to non-linear while tracking. Done! LP mode uses a look ahead buffer that messes with any real-time work. So save the actual LP algorithms for mastering only, and use non-linear mode for tracking and mixing. The latest version of LP EQ has two categories of factory presets, Mastering and Mixing. The Mixing presets have non-linear settings by default. The MIDI buffer size is something that should be extended regardless. The default appears to be too low.
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