OldJoeClark
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Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
Due to new hardware that only supports 48k sample rate I need to convert older Sonar Projects from 48.1k. I successfully converted the wav files using a third party program and the Sonar project reads the files just fine. HOWEVER, on some of the tracks the audio at the end of the clip doesn't display the waveform nor does it play this missing part back. This is a major issue! The overall length of the clip looks fine, there is just no waveform displaying nor playing back on the tail end. I double-checked the wav files independently with a different software and the audio is indeed there. I can also import the wav file into the same project and all the audio will be there. Doing this manually would be painstaking trying to get it placed correctly in time. I tried the "Recompute Picture(s)" command to no avail. Any ideas for nudging Sonar to rescan the original wav files to fix playback and waveform display? Thanks, Paul
post edited by OldJoeClark - 2017/08/21 03:40:41
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 01:34:43
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Any help on this one? Please, I'm desperate! Here's an illustration I made that explains my issue in a nutshell. Anyone have an ideas how to wake Sonar up and rescan the wav files so they get properly rendered?:
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chuckebaby
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 14:16:25
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I wish I could help you here but I have no idea what is going. Which 3rd party software did you use ? Was it R8Brain ? Hope the bump helps. EDIT I just read R8Brains info From Voxengo's site: The demo version allows you to evaluate all the features of the software, but its conversion is limited to the first minute of an audio file. The demo version does not support batch conversions.
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Joe_A
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 14:37:19
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Sounds like more info is needed.
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 14:55:36
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I used SOX to convert the files and wrote my own Python script to apply it. I used Transcribe! to play some of the wav files and the audio is all there on the converted files. I could use more brute methods of doing this, but not without losing all my effect and other track settings. I have a number of files to work on, so my problem is multiplied. I am wondering if there is some number associated with the Sonar Clips based on the previous sample rate that is causing the clips to not render correctly. What is it, and how can I change it? (note: I tried to put links in here, but the SPAM filtering is zapping them)
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pwalpwal
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 15:13:00
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2017/08/23 15:47:51
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Cactus Music
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 15:27:26
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I use Gold Wave for batch conversion as it seem the easiest to use of all Wave editors. It's free to try but a life time membership for only $50 is a heck of a deal. It's been around for a long time and they keep it up to date with Windows OS.
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mettelus
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 15:55:19
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SONAR does Sample Rate Conversion automatically when a file is imported to the project setting, so if you export tracks from the 44.1K project and import them into the 48K project they will be correct. I am not sure what is occurring in your situation above, but it appears that the wav file may have a header on it that SONAR does not recognize... like it was NOT converted, but the 3rd party program told it to "play back at 48K." It looks like SONAR simply imported the samples (so is probably 10% shorter?). Has the audio that does play been pitch shifted up?
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/23 18:16:11
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mettelus SONAR does Sample Rate Conversion automatically when a file is imported to the project setting, so if you export tracks from the 44.1K project and import them into the 48K project they will be correct. I am not sure what is occurring in your situation above, but it appears that the wav file may have a header on it that SONAR does not recognize... like it was NOT converted, but the 3rd party program told it to "play back at 48K." It looks like SONAR simply imported the samples (so is probably 10% shorter?). Has the audio that does play been pitch shifted up?
Good food for thought. Don't know much about headers, but I'm pretty sure SOX can manipulate them. I will explore that tonight. Thanks.
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/24 14:25:57
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So I played around with this a bit last night looking specifically at the header trail and couldn't make it work trying different command line parameters with SOX. I checked the pitch on the resulting clips and it's fine. Here's another possible piece of the puzzle though: going from 44.1k to 48k the resulting 48k will have more samples for the same time duration. What's probably happening is that although Sonar is recognizing the higher 48k sample rate there's probably a clip parameter under the hood that represents the total sample count and perhaps the 44.1k sample count is still associated with the clip instead of the 48k sample count. This is consistent with the symptom I'm experiencing in which the last 10% or so of the audio is missing in the clip. Does this spur any more ideas with anyone? Just to reiterate, if I import one of the underlying wav files into Sonar in a new location there is no problem; Sonar recognizes 100% of the audio in the clip at the correct sample rate. This also supports the idea that the wav files are not the problem, but it's more likely the glue in Sonar that binds the wav files to the Sonar clips. More ideas anyone?
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chuckebaby
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/24 14:34:00
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Why not just as a test, try another sample converter http://www.voxengo.com/product/r8brain/This one is free and I don't believe there are any limitations on this one. it is not as good as the pro version but it should work. This will take the guess work out of "Is it sonar or is it SOX".
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/25 02:19:40
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chuckebaby Why not just as a test, try another sample converter
This one is free and I don't believe there are any limitations on this one. it is not as good as the pro version but it should work. This will take the guess work out of "Is it sonar or is it SOX".
r8brain is where I started, so that's why I was trying SOX. But for sh!ts and giggles I tried r8brain again and still get the same result. As you can see I got identical results between r8brain and SOX. You cannot rule out that r8brain is using the SOX library. If I were going to write r8brain and there was already an open utility library, I sure wouldn't reinvent the wheel! ORGINAL WAV FILE Input File : 'Shes_Got_You, Barb vocal , Mix (587)BAK.wav' Channels : 1 Sample Rate : 44100 Precision : 25-bit Duration : 00:02:24.21 = 6359591 samples = 10815.6 CDDA sectors File Size : 25.4M Bit Rate : 1.41M Sample Encoding: 32-bit Floating Point PCM CONVERTED TO 48k WITH SOX C:\......\Audio>sox --i "Shes_Got_You, Barb vocal , Mix (587).wav" Input File : 'Shes_Got_You, Barb vocal , Mix (587).wav' Channels : 1 Sample Rate : 48000 Precision : 25-bit Duration : 00:02:24.21 = 6922004 samples ~ 10815.6 CDDA sectors File Size : 27.7M Bit Rate : 1.54M Sample Encoding: 32-bit Floating Point PCM CONVERTED TO 48k WITH r8brain C:\.......\Audio>sox --i "Shes_Got_You, Barb vocal , Mix (587).wav" sox WARN wav: wave header missing extended part of fmt chunk Input File : 'Shes_Got_You, Barb vocal , Mix (587).wav' Channels : 1 Sample Rate : 48000 Precision : 25-bit Duration : 00:02:24.21 = 6922004 samples ~ 10815.6 CDDA sectors File Size : 27.7M Bit Rate : 1.54M Sample Encoding: 32-bit Floating Point PCM
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/26 18:17:50
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I downloaded Gold Wave as was suggested here by Cactus Music and used that to convert my wav files. Got the same result! (BTW, Gold Wave has a decent user interface and the easiest to use of the tools I've tried so far for converting audio files). Another thing I've tried is after converting the files, I renamed the Audio folder so Sonar couldn't find the files and then I invoked the command to reattach the files hoping that whatever parameter might be preventing the files from being fully rendered in the Sonar clips would get regenerated. Did not work. Trolling again for ideas, Sonar buddies. This seems like a Sonar bug to me. It shouldn't be this hard! Paul
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OldJoeClark
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Re: Issue with Changing Sample Rates in X3
2017/08/28 16:07:29
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Well, I gave up and just did the least painful grunt work way as was suggested by Milton on a different thread: Milton Solved. I had to save my project as a "Template" in the templates folder (without deleting any audio clips!). I then started a 'new' project (with a new project name) using the just saved template but setting the new sample rate to what I needed e.g. 96KHz to 48KHz etc. Then after opening the newly created project I deleted all audio clips and then saved it again to the same "Templates" folder as previously in order to be able to use this new template at the new sample rate for future projects. Seems like a long solution, but it worked. This allowed me to keep all my tracks, buses, project views, etc. without having to re-build my project from scratch. Sure hope Cakewalk makes this task easier in a future update. They need to see how Cubase Pro handles this (much easier and quicker).
I agree with Milton that Cakewalk needs to address this. It looks like to me that there is some parameter attached to Sonar clips that contains the total number of samples and this parameter does not get regenerated if the sample rate is changed in the project.
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