Helpful ReplyWhy Not ProTools?

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nsureit
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 03:47:55 (permalink)
For anyone contemplating conversion to Pro Tools, here's a good article:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013040/Exporting-SONAR-Projects-as-OMF-Files-for-Use-in-Other-Applications
 
Exporting SONAR Projects as OMF Files for Use in Other Applications

Last updated on 3/28/2016

Return to Part 1- Importing OMF files

An Ounce of Preparation...

If you plan to export a SONAR project to another program that can read OMF files, it pays to consider three things before you start your SONAR project:

· Sample rate and audio bit depth of the target system

· Number of tracks the target system can handle

· SONAR and most other audio programs do not include Video in OMF file

While sample rates and bit depths can be converted after you export a project, it saves a lot of time to avoid conversions, if at all possible.

To Prepare a SONAR Project to Export as an OMF File

1. Make a copy of the project you want to export, and then only work on the copy to prepare for export.
2. If you have any MIDI tracks you want to export in the project, either record them as audio tracks, or put them into a Standard MIDI File that the other program can read.
3. Delete any tracks you don't want to export.
4. If you want to export volume or pan automation that is represented in SONAR as volume and pan envelopes, you will need to Edit-Bounce to Tracks or Edit-Bounce to Clips to mix the envelopes into new audio tracks or clips.
5. If you want to export the sound of any plug-in effects that you have patched, select the tracks that have the effects patched, and then use the Process-Apply Audio Effects command.
6. Create a text file to send along with the OMF file, detailing the tempo and any other important information about the project.

Exporting SONAR Projects as OMF Files

After you prepare a copy of your project to export, exporting is straightforward. Check with the engineer at the target studio to see if there are any special instructions for exporting, such as whether they want the file in Windows (RIFF Wave) or Mac (AIFC) format, which you can choose in SONAR's Export OMF dialog. If you've booked time at the studio, arrange to have your project played and inspected at the studio the day before your session, to be sure your project is as expected.


To Export a SONAR Project as an OMF File

1. Use the File | Export | OMF command.
2. The Export OMF dialog appears.
3. Enter a File Name (maximum 64 characters-SONAR limits name length for ISO CDR compatibility), and in the Save As Type field, choose OMF Version 1 or 2. Most applications expect Version 2, but check with your engineer.
4. Audio Packaging: usually you should choose Embed Audio Within OMF, which includes the audio data in the OMF file. But you should check with your engineer.
5. Split Stereo Tracks Into Dual Mono: see what your engineer wants. If exporting a 24-bit project to a Pro Tools system, enable "Split Stereo Tracks Into Dual Mono," as some Pro Tools systems do not support 24-bit interleaved stereo files.
6. Include Archived Tracks: you can choose to include archived tracks in your exported file.
7. Mix Each Groove Clip As A Separate Clip: if you have several Groove Clips in a track SONAR exports them as one clip unless you check this option. If you check this option, SONAR has to do a separate export operation for each Groove Clip in the track, which is very time-consuming. If you only have one Groove Clip in a track, and you have rolled out numerous repetitions of the clip, SONAR exports a single clip that is the length of the original clip and all the repetitions, which is not a time-consuming operation.
8. Audio Format: ask your engineer what format the studio uses, Windows (RIFF Wave) or Mac (AIFC).
9. Click the Save button.
10. SONAR exports the project as an OMF file.

You can also open OMF files to SONAR from Pro Tools and other programs that can export OMF (File-Open command). Read the tip on importing OMF files into SONAR.
#31
dwardzala
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 04:33:51 (permalink)
I spent about a year with Pro Tools several years ago when I got my first audio interface (it came with a version of PT).
 
I couldn't afford to keep up with the upgrades.
 
The included instruments and midi implementation were not as good as Sonar.
 
The user forum was a bunch of douchebags.
 
Otherwise it was a functional DAW and you can make great music with it.  However, the above three reasons brought me back to Sonar when there was a upgrade deal for X1.

Dave
Main Studio- Core i5 @2.67GHz, 16Gb Ram, (2) 500Gb HDs, (1) 360 Gb HD
MotU Ultralite AVB, Axiom 49 Midi Controller, Akai MPD18 Midi Controller
Win10 x64 Home
Sonar 2017.06 Platinum (and X3e, X2c, X1d)
 
Mobile Studio - Sager NP8677 (i7-6700HQ @2.67MHz, 16G Ram, 250G SSD, 1T HD)
M-Box Mini v. 2
Win 10 x64 Home
Sonar 2016.10 Platinum
 
Check out my original music:
https://soundcloud.com/d-wardzala/sets/d-wardzala-original-music
 
 
#32
dubdisciple
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 05:18:24 (permalink)
ChazEd
LOL lots of ProTools haters out there.
 
But hey, guess what? ProTools is stronger than ever.
 
In my opinion, the choice is easy:
 
Audio? ProTools.
 
Midi? Cubase.
 
Have a Mac? Logic.
 
Any of those are better than a zombified terminal vaporware just waiting the last nail in the coffin.


Avid has been on the brink of financial disaster several times. Their video editing edge has slipped considerably. Hollywood used to be almost exclusively Avid and that is no longer the case. More importantly, the indie film industry and hobbyists barely touch it. The larger audio studios still does a lot of mixing in pro tools, but production within it has fallen off heavily. Dance music and pop music, which probably results in more sales than there are "professional high end studios" is dominated by the likes of Ableton and FL studio for composition. Granted, these are often mixed in PT, but it's shrinking
#33
dcmg
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 15:33:00 (permalink)
Avid is a publicly traded company with financial data reported quarterly.
Actual company financial health can be reviewed on their investor relations site.
Looking over their 2016 overview, their financials are all over the map, but from a Wall Street perspective they are in a declining trend. Still, they have more revenue streams than CW had. Video software is still carrying the load. This sentence tells a lot:
"Revenues from digital audio software and workstation solutions accounted for 13%, 14% and 16% of our total net revenues in 2016, 2015 and 2014, respectively"
 
This is part of my decision making for next DAW regarding Steinberg, Presonus and Avid. I'd like to avoid being on the Titanic again :)

CWBL/SPlat/Studio One Pro on Win10-64 Bit
Asrock H370 Pro4 w/Intel i7-8700
16GB Adata DDR4 2666 RAM
All SSD's/ On-Board Intel Graphics
Apollo 8 Quad FW/TB, AD2, Trillian, Omni, S-Gear, Waves, Soundtoys, TRacks, 
MicPres: Langevin DVC, Great River, UAD LA610Mk2. 
Dynaudio Monitors, and other stuff.
#34
soens
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 16:07:10 (permalink)
I gave PT|F a try but it only works with "approved" hardware. It refuses to even open on my system because of this. "For that reason, I'm out!"
#35
fitzj
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 17:06:42 (permalink)
I have protocols for windows, what a load of crap. No comparison to Sonar. Studio1 Pro and Notation my second DAW. Reaper not bad but I don't like the small fonts, but for 60$how could you go wrong and its compatible with all the old  cakewalk format DX and DXi plus the full Sonitus range.
I have tested it with the newer LP plugins and also work.
Some Vsti not working True Piano.
None of the BT plugins work.
Waves plugins work ok.
#36
dubdisciple
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 19:02:47 (permalink)
Btw..for those considering pro tools. It is probably more so important than any other DAW that your setup matches reccomended specs as much as possible. If it says minimum i5 and you use i3 customer support is likely to blow you off.
#37
markyzno
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 19:16:02 (permalink)
I Have PT already but it is NOWEHERE near as fluid as Sonar (although I have been using Cakewalk for 20+ years).
Its all about short cuts and the interface is dated.
 
I'm thinking about Presonus as an alt to Sonar (This is heart breaking!)

Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

Sound Design on IMDB --
 
#38
markyzno
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 19:18:15 (permalink)
nsureit
For anyone contemplating conversion to Pro Tools, here's a good article:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013040/Exporting-SONAR-Projects-as-OMF-Files-for-Use-in-Other-Applications
 
Exporting SONAR Projects as OMF Files for Use in Other Applications

Last updated on 3/28/2016

Return to Part 1- Importing OMF files

An Ounce of Preparation...

If you plan to export a SONAR project to another program that can read OMF files, it pays to consider three things before you start your SONAR project:

· Sample rate and audio bit depth of the target system

· Number of tracks the target system can handle

· SONAR and most other audio programs do not include Video in OMF file

While sample rates and bit depths can be converted after you export a project, it saves a lot of time to avoid conversions, if at all possible.

To Prepare a SONAR Project to Export as an OMF File

1. Make a copy of the project you want to export, and then only work on the copy to prepare for export.
2. If you have any MIDI tracks you want to export in the project, either record them as audio tracks, or put them into a Standard MIDI File that the other program can read.
3. Delete any tracks you don't want to export.
4. If you want to export volume or pan automation that is represented in SONAR as volume and pan envelopes, you will need to Edit-Bounce to Tracks or Edit-Bounce to Clips to mix the envelopes into new audio tracks or clips.
5. If you want to export the sound of any plug-in effects that you have patched, select the tracks that have the effects patched, and then use the Process-Apply Audio Effects command.
6. Create a text file to send along with the OMF file, detailing the tempo and any other important information about the project.

Exporting SONAR Projects as OMF Files

After you prepare a copy of your project to export, exporting is straightforward. Check with the engineer at the target studio to see if there are any special instructions for exporting, such as whether they want the file in Windows (RIFF Wave) or Mac (AIFC) format, which you can choose in SONAR's Export OMF dialog. If you've booked time at the studio, arrange to have your project played and inspected at the studio the day before your session, to be sure your project is as expected.


To Export a SONAR Project as an OMF File

1. Use the File | Export | OMF command.
2. The Export OMF dialog appears.
3. Enter a File Name (maximum 64 characters-SONAR limits name length for ISO CDR compatibility), and in the Save As Type field, choose OMF Version 1 or 2. Most applications expect Version 2, but check with your engineer.
4. Audio Packaging: usually you should choose Embed Audio Within OMF, which includes the audio data in the OMF file. But you should check with your engineer.
5. Split Stereo Tracks Into Dual Mono: see what your engineer wants. If exporting a 24-bit project to a Pro Tools system, enable "Split Stereo Tracks Into Dual Mono," as some Pro Tools systems do not support 24-bit interleaved stereo files.
6. Include Archived Tracks: you can choose to include archived tracks in your exported file.
7. Mix Each Groove Clip As A Separate Clip: if you have several Groove Clips in a track SONAR exports them as one clip unless you check this option. If you check this option, SONAR has to do a separate export operation for each Groove Clip in the track, which is very time-consuming. If you only have one Groove Clip in a track, and you have rolled out numerous repetitions of the clip, SONAR exports a single clip that is the length of the original clip and all the repetitions, which is not a time-consuming operation.
8. Audio Format: ask your engineer what format the studio uses, Windows (RIFF Wave) or Mac (AIFC).
9. Click the Save button.
10. SONAR exports the project as an OMF file.

You can also open OMF files to SONAR from Pro Tools and other programs that can export OMF (File-Open command). Read the tip on importing OMF files into SONAR.




I'm sorry but it is well documented here (by me and a few others) that Sonar OMF exports are bugged.
 
DO NOT RELY ON SONAR EXPORTING OMF's!!! (it's why I bought PT in the first place, it's mighty fine at handling OMF's)

Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

Sound Design on IMDB --
 
#39
dubdisciple
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 20:36:11 (permalink)
Sonar reads OMFs well enough, but the export is soso.

FYI, I don't think S1 imports OMFs, which sucks. Fortunately i still have sonar
#40
LpMike75
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/26 21:52:41 (permalink)
I use both PT and Sonar.  I prefer Sonar's workflow and virtual instruments when I am writing and recording myself.  If I were to track a full band, I would much rather track/mix in Pro Tools.
 
For any audio post production, Pro Tools is light years ahead of Sonar.  Pro Tools is a more advanced tracking, editing and mixing software.  Sonar does not offer the advanced key binds, navigation and editing features that Pro Tools does, thus making Pro Tools a much more efficient audio editor. Pro Tools midi used to suck but in the last few years has really made leaps and bounds in this area.  I still prefer Sonar for writing orchestral mock ups, but could definitely use Pro Tools of I had to.....and it looks like I might :( 
 
Both are great programs with different strengths.  Coming from Sonar originally, it took me quite a while to wrap my head around the bus layout of Pro Tools.  Routing might be your biggest learning curve if you were to switch.  Pro Tools is a very deep program with tons of options.  If you are a solo bedroom recording musician than almost any modern DAW will work just as good for you, but if you are a professional audio editor, engineer or tracking live bands, Pro Tools will win hands down in the workflow efficiency category.   
 
 


- Mike
Sonar Platinum - M-Audio Profire 2626 , Pro Tools 11 HD Omni - PC I7 6850K - 64 G RAM - GeForce GTX 970
http://www.soundcloud.com/michael-lizotte 
Http://WWW.HomeRecordingWizard.Com
HTTP://WWW.Facebook.com/HomeRecordingWizard
Http://www.mjlmusic.com 
#41
karma1959
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/29 14:38:56 (permalink)
I was planning on replacing my DAW hardware next year anyway.  Given the Sonar news, I'll use hardware replacement as an opportunity to migrate to new DAW software as well. 
 
Upon reading comments for quite a long time comparing Sonar vs. PT, it seems both platforms have their strengths.  Using a massive sweeping generalization, Pro Tools seems to get favorable reviews by people who are primarily working with recording / editing digital audio and concerned about interoperability with many high-end / pro studios.  PT tends to get poor feedback from those wanting more advanced functionality and working with heavy MIDI / sequencer focus. 
 
Some may want a DAW that's most similar to Sonar to minimize migration learning curve.  I don't earn my living recording music, 95 % of my DAW time is spent on recording and editing digital audio (almost no MIDI / soft synths). 
 
A big frustration in recording my last album was I spent countless hours tracking, then mixing / editing in Sonar.  I hired a pro engineer to complete mixing for a professional end result.  The Pro engineer used PT (as most do), so I had to export everything to OMF (or gave him WAVs of some items) losing many of the mixing details I put countless hours into (panning, etc. ) 
 
I will follow the same path of tracking myself and hiring a pro to complete mixing - interoperability is key.  So I will be evaluating PT closely when selecting new DAW software, as I do not want to repeat the situation above 
 
Hope that helps.
Russ

Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
#42
raisindot
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Re: Why Not ProTools? 2017/11/29 14:48:26 (permalink)
I once tried a version of ProTools that came with hardware I bought. 
 
I wasn't overly impressed. It seemed totally geared for audio production, and my work is mainly MIDI-to-audio. 
 
And performance on my (at the time) state of the art PC was sluggish as hell. 
 
I wouldn't serious consider it today, especially since I don't want to be locked into a proprietary plug in format and I absolutely refuse to use any software that uses an ILok. 
 
Sonar Platinum does everything I need it to do. As long as the servers keep running and it works Windows I have no desire or need to ever switch to anything else. 
#43
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