sharke
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 05:39:51
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☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/12/21 09:19:03
I have to admit, I've used cracked software before. Years ago, I needed Dreamweaver and Illustrator for a tiny web based project, so I downloaded torrents and keygens and bob's your uncle. Didn't feel in the slightest bit guilty for it whatsoever - I would have never bought them otherwise, and Adobe didn't lose a penny out of it. These days I have an Adobe subscription, paid for through my business, which I'm not sure I would have gotten if I hadn't become familiar with Adobe programs back then.
Having said that, I've never used any pirated music software. I didn't have any kind of moral epiphany or anything, it's just that dealing with cracked software is a real PITA. There's a ton of risk to your machine involved, you don't get any support, and your update cycle is limited to whenever the crackers get around to it. Feels much better to buy your software legitimately and frolic around the community in the open without constantly having to hide the fact that you're "one of them." And of course it's nice to be able to talk freely with the developers as a legitimate customer.
So I'm not gonna judge the OP. Especially since he's now in the market to shell out some cash. Think of it this way - let's imagine Cakewalk was still around and he decided to pony up. His choice to buy Sonar came about because he'd used a snide copy in the past. If he hadn't used that snide copy, he might not have decided to buy it now. So Cakewalk effectively makes a sale based off of his familiarity with a pirated version.
Similar arguments have been made in the past about pirated Adobe products. When the kids pirate Photoshop or Premiere or After Effects, they're developing a relationship with the programs and learning how to use them, so that when they're in a financial position to "come clean" (which has clear benefits over using bogus copies), they're gonna buy the programs they become familiar with during their cracked years.
Of course it's not as clear cut as that and there are doubtless people who could afford to buy a program but choose to use a cracked version to save money. However, to accuse the OP of being the kind of person who killed Cakewalk is off the charts dramatic. Other DAW's get pirated just as much (if not more), and yet they haven't gone out of business.
HOWEVER - I would honestly advise the OP to NOT purchase a copy of Sonar at this point. It's dead. It's unlikely to ever be updated, and it has some shockingly bad bugs in it (bugs that will literally destroy hours of work, as I've documented elsewhere). If you're going to shell out on one DAW, make it one that has a future ahead of it. I'm telling you, despite people telling you that Sonar is amazing and that you'll be using it happily for years to come, the truth is that you'll probably end up regretting buying it over a more stable, less buggy DAW with customer support and future updates.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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outland144k
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 05:40:42
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e3do
Ok, folks.
My mistake for even mentioning the fact that I have a questionable software product, but really?
All that hatred was a bit much for me.
Truth be told, I was an accomplished and poor drummer/amateur composer ALL of my years, which is why I only wanted to dabble in anything digital. I tried a bunch of demos over a decade ago and liked Cakewalk. Being that I had a regular day job and many responsibilities, I couldn't afford to use it often, much less pay for it. So if I only used the software as a hobbyist a few times a year for my own pleasure and/or collaboration, why would I pay so much? The people you should be mad at are the ones who make money (or try to) using the software. That is the real crime and IMHO cause of any large negative backlash.
I don't believe in piracy (with exceptions). Remember Napster? Of course , NONE of you ever used it, right?
What about the whole hip-hop rip-off going back to the beastie boys vs LedZep et al...hmmm?
IF someone got my stuff for free and liked listening to it, hopefully they would at least pass it on with mention. If they outright stole the composition(s) and re-used it somehow...worse than a gut sucker punch. Karma may never be enough but I believe in the golden rule. So am I a hypocrite for using software I might not have paid for?
I guess so, if you consider that the people who wrote it need to make a living too.
I DO believe in paying for something you enjoy even if on a limited basis (like a song). I guess that now has to include software and anything else that wasn't written by me.
I DID say I wanted to purchase this software - who cares about my questionable nonsense? Times change. I'm not a digital fiend any longer. I wanted some feedback and I hit a hornets nest.
I am someone who appreciates others work and am willing to step up.
Cakewalk isn't going down because of me; if anything it will survive because it IS superior.
Lastly, if anyone ever asked me which DAW to go with (legitimately) I would have said CAKEWALK; isn't that a pro-service to them as well? I'm a supporter, not a detractor, always providing positive feedback based on my minimal usage.
I sincerely apologize to the authors of any software; they might as well be the musicians behind a song I liked, downloaded and didn't pay for.
That reminds me...
I'm a HUGE King's X fan. I recently discovered an "authorized bootleg" by a fellow known as Wally Farkas and it's totally legit. I heard a couple samples and bought/sent it to my best friend. I went to visit him and he played the whole album for us and we were blown away - this was just like a great live King's X experience. When I was leaving he said "let me make you a copy". I could let him send me a copy or find a torrent.
NO. I'll order another one.
Not only does King's X deserve the royalty, so does Wally Farkas. He's the man that made this special mix possible.
BTW - if you are a King's X fan this is a MUST HAVE: Google "King's X - "Tales from the Empire: Cleveland 6.26.92" and GET IT.
Please let this be a newbie forum mistake (on my part) and not a discussion on "questionable" software.
Thanks for your replies...be well
I'll respond once with bullet points. 1) A thief who admits that he is a thief is a thief nonetheless. If he has changed and buys the software (nota bene: action, not intent here), he may have stopped acting on his impulse to steal, or he may have stopped for only a given instance. Action, however, not intent is the question here. As far as your comments attest, you haven't bought anything yet. It is ironic that now that Cakewalk cannot benefit in a meaningful way from your "going straight" (if indeed you follow through with your intent), you have decided to buy the software with your money. 2) Anger is not hatred, it is anger. One may be angry with a student for stealing someone's lunch money, but one doesn't hate him. And you are not the "one sinned against"; you are the thief.
3) I used Napster until it was deemed illegal and found out no royalties were being paid. Then it was wiped from my HDD. I do not steal software or music, period. However.... 4) The question of "hypocrisy" is a red herring. Theft remains theft and harmful to the owners of the object stolen regardless of the level or existence of hypocrisy. The intent behind a theft is a moot point when one discusses damages. 5) Whether or not you (or anyone for that matter) believe it, you had a hand in the shuttering of Cakewalk. Your theft would fall under the Aristotelian category of causation entitled "contributory" cause. It is not an "effective" cause and no one has suggested such. It is certainly odd to state that "Cakewalk will survive" because of its merits when you ripped off the company of a sale and Cakewalk simply doesn't survive any longer. This last comment of yours somehow came off as particularly surreal to me. 6) No one cares whether you think the giving away of your own music for free by others is enough to qualify as "support" for the music. The fact that the government allows for the prosecution of such individuals who do this should serve as enough of a statement to show how out of sync with reality such thinking is. Of course, you can smile at those who steal your music; live it up! Others, however, expect a fair price for their work and have a legal right so to do.
“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless. 
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 06:18:20
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☄ Helpfulby Steev 2017/12/21 11:12:21
We can all make excuses to validate or rationalize our actions, it's human nature, albeit acquired human nature. We can all sit high in judgement of another individual with our own validations and rationalizations in place to calm our consciences, and to appear holier than thou, but in the end . . .
I guess for another example, back in the day I guess nobody used Winzip (or other software) past it's trial period, year after year?, the Winzip devs had bills to pay and mouths to feed as well you know?, I mean there are so many examples of things people do which are essentially exactly the same as what they are crucifying this poor soul for, but they excuse themselves, justify themselves, or just plain refuse to see it.
If you are going to preach honesty and integrity, at least have the decency to be living up to it yourself in EVERY aspect of life, and if you are, more power to you. Otherwise, you are just being hypocritical, being selective, doing it when it suits you, and well, . . . just being a dick.
This poor fellow didn't kill Cakewalk/SONAR, neither did the others that use cracked versions, Cakewalk were quite capable of doing that themselves.
Intel i7 4790 @3.6Ghz - 32GB Ram - Windows 10 Pro 64bit - RME Fireface UFX+
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ljb500
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 06:39:26
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☄ Helpfulby sharke 2017/12/21 08:07:43
It's laughable that some people blame one guy using some ancient but cracked version of sonar, on its demise. Its more likely to be down to all the guys too tight to upgrade or spend money on a newer version and instead stayed on sonar 5,6,7,8 , x1-3 etc. Seems to be a load of those guys on here.
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tenfoot
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 09:25:05
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Matron Landslide
I don't know why, but the words 'sanctimonious hypocrites' keep popping into my mind, don't know why, maybe someone can help?
A wise man once said . . . "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"
Haha - indeed! Lost me at the Jesus quote as I am not a fan of any religion, but up till then:)
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Kev999
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 09:52:28
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☄ Helpfulby Steev 2017/12/21 11:11:04
ljb500
It's laughable that some people blame one guy using some ancient but cracked version of sonar, on its demise. Its more likely to be down to all the guys too tight to upgrade or spend money on a newer version and instead stayed on sonar 5,6,7,8 , x1-3 etc...
Blame me! I stayed with Sonar 7PE for 4½ years before eventually upgrading to X2. Then I stuck with X3 for a couple of years and didn't upgrade to Platinum until the lifetime offer. It's my fault.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
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Having fun at work lately
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Steev
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 13:21:09
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sharke
I have to admit, I've used cracked software before. Years ago, I needed Dreamweaver and Illustrator for a tiny web based project, so I downloaded torrents and keygens and bob's your uncle. Didn't feel in the slightest bit guilty for it whatsoever - I would have never bought them otherwise, and Adobe didn't lose a penny out of it. These days I have an Adobe subscription, paid for through my business, which I'm not sure I would have gotten if I hadn't become familiar with Adobe programs back then.
Having said that, I've never used any pirated music software. I didn't have any kind of moral epiphany or anything, it's just that dealing with cracked software is a real PITA. There's a ton of risk to your machine involved, you don't get any support, and your update cycle is limited to whenever the crackers get around to it. Feels much better to buy your software legitimately and frolic around the community in the open without constantly having to hide the fact that you're "one of them." And of course it's nice to be able to talk freely with the developers as a legitimate customer.
So I'm not gonna judge the OP. Especially since he's now in the market to shell out some cash. Think of it this way - let's imagine Cakewalk was still around and he decided to pony up. His choice to buy Sonar came about because he'd used a snide copy in the past. If he hadn't used that snide copy, he might not have decided to buy it now. So Cakewalk effectively makes a sale based off of his familiarity with a pirated version.
Similar arguments have been made in the past about pirated Adobe products. When the kids pirate Photoshop or Premiere or After Effects, they're developing a relationship with the programs and learning how to use them, so that when they're in a financial position to "come clean" (which has clear benefits over using bogus copies), they're gonna buy the programs they become familiar with during their cracked years.
Of course it's not as clear cut as that and there are doubtless people who could afford to buy a program but choose to use a cracked version to save money. However, to accuse the OP of being the kind of person who killed Cakewalk is off the charts dramatic. Other DAW's get pirated just as much (if not more), and yet they haven't gone out of business.
HOWEVER - I would honestly advise the OP to NOT purchase a copy of Sonar at this point. It's dead. It's unlikely to ever be updated, and it has some shockingly bad bugs in it (bugs that will literally destroy hours of work, as I've documented elsewhere). If you're going to shell out on one DAW, make it one that has a future ahead of it. I'm telling you, despite people telling you that Sonar is amazing and that you'll be using it happily for years to come, the truth is that you'll probably end up regretting buying it over a more stable, less buggy DAW with customer support and future updates.
While I'm actually a SPLAT user, I find it kinda difficult to believe that SPRO should be particularly any more "buggy" than any other DAW. Now while I found SPLAT to be a bit buggy along the way during such a rigorous never ending/changing development a.k.a. as the "Subscription Plan", once I stopped updating it settled into a stable, familiar, and reliable environment in which I knew what to expect and "that I knew how to use" Because nothing new was added, nothing changed was further "tweaked", and when it stopped "CHANGING" all bugs seemed smoothed out somewhere around the middle of my 2017 subscription. I would ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT! One of the very few times I've EVER tried to use Cakewalk "TECH SUPPORT" in 30 years, all I got was the stable computer generated email thanking me for contacting them telling me how important my business is to the Blah, blah, bblahaaaa, here's a case number, all our support techs are busy (trying to figure out how to get SONAR to run on a Mac) and we'll get back to you as soon as possible..... Well they never did..... EITHER OF THOSE THINGS! So pardon me if I'm not feeling particularly sorry for Gibson Brands corporate blunders and mistakes. I don't even feel sorry for my self, but can only hope all the staff and most talented Cakewalk Bakers have found gainful employment, and I will continue to promote and advise others to purchase SONAR and enjoy it's unique power and benefits while you still can. Just because Gibson shut down the Cakewalk Store doesn't mean it can't still be purchased at retail music stores, and even survive and thrive.. And so I sit wonder what's worse ???? Being guilty of trying cracked software before deciding to buy, or kicking old friends when they are down just because you ASSUME they are dead! based on the limited information we know about the situation. I've always found it to be true over the decades that many situations we perceive as "bugs" are either caused be user error, or trying to force professional results and performance out of a bargain box off the shelf computer, or even thinking that your i7 laptop, no matter how much you invested in it could ever possibly keep up and do what a finely tuned pro grade 8 core brute power workstation can do. My AMD FX8370 8 core described below can seemingly run an unlimited amount of tracks, plugins, and synths without breaking into a sweat, peaking out at about 1/3 on the CPU meter with stable and smooth low latency all day and all night with audio drivers set @ 24/48 with buffer set to 128. A typical project like that with 30 or 40 audio/MIDI tracks created on my AMD workstation will crash and lock SONAR X3 PE on my 4 gen i7 HP pulled off of the shelf of HARD TO IGNORE low price at Best Buy during a Black Friday SUPER SALE! This does NOT mean AMD is better then Intel. It doesn't even mean SPLAT is better then X3. Nor does it mean Cubase is the best any more then it means Donald Trump will make America great again. It means I can't expect a consumer grade gamer machine to do the job of a Pro grade custom built workstation just because "There's Intel Inside". 
Steev on Bandlab.com Custom built workstation. Windows 10 Pro x64. SONAR Platinum. Cakewalk by Bandlab.Sony Sound Forge Pro 10, ACID Pro 7, Vegas Pro 11Pro Tools. ASRock 990FX mobo, AMD FX 8370 8-Core. 16 gb DDR3 PC1866 G Skill Ripjaws X RAM. AMD FirePro V4900 1gb DDR5 accelerated graphics card. Behringer X Touch DAW ControllerFocusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2, OctoPre MkllWestern Digital 500GB SSD bootdrive, WD 500GB 10k rpm VelociRaptor for DAW projects . 2x1 TB WD Caviar Black SATA3 storage drives
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chuckebaby
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 13:21:36
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2017/12/26 18:31:21
Its black and white with me. you are either paying for what you own or your not.
But that's only my opinion and opinions are like A holes, we all have one.
I just cant justify using cracked software cause im either A- Poor or B- just trying it out.
Because A- I have been poor and still managed to scrape together the money to purchase my gear and B- most software company's have demo versions for this reason alone, so you don't need to "Steal it and then buy what you like".
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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CTStump
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 14:09:06
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☄ Helpfulby outland144k 2017/12/26 18:31:30
Whether the OP is wrong or right this forum is probably NOT the right place to fess up amd admit to using a illegal copy of Sonar. You have to believe that this is known or intended.
It may have better to come clean on a nuetral forum if the question really needed to be answered honestly.
Sonar 8.5PE
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Karyn
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Re: Serious question: Would it be foolish to still buy Sonar Professional ?
2017/12/21 14:16:42
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This has run its coarse now.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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