My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar

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mwmcbroom
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2018/07/23 00:01:57 (permalink)

My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar

Sorry about the length of this post. The problem is rather involved, hence the length. But to put matters succinctly, my GR-33, which communicates with Sonar via a MIDI to USB adapter, is no longer being heard (when it used to, quite reliably). It appears to be a problem between the USB adapter and Sonar's Mains Outs. Also, I'm having a problem with the GR-33, which may or may not be related to the above. It fails to sync up with Sonar for things like patch changes. The long-winded discussion follows:
 
This happened all of a sudden. It's been a few weeks ago since it first happened. Prior to this, my GR-33 worked very reliably with Sonar. It was an all of a sudden thing. One day it was working, the next day it wasn't. Or at least reliably.
 
Here's my setup: My Roland GR-33 has the old-style round MIDI connectors but my computer has none; it doesn't even have a joystick port, which was how I used to get MIDI signals into the machine back in "olden times." Now, I rely on USB inputs. So to get my GR-33 into Sonar, I have a Midiman Midisport 2x2, which has two MIDI in/out/thru ports and one USB out. Because the GR-33 is being brought into Sonar via the Midisport, Sonar sees the Midisport and not the GR-33, as is indicated in the MIDI Devices tab within the Preferences dialog. The Devices tab shows both Midisport ports, but since I'm using only one, I've clicked on only one. Fortunately I'm able to assign the Midisport's port's channels to a GR-33 Instrument Definition file, so that when I click on bank and patch, I can make the appropriate selections.
 
To simplify things, I've set up a new file in Sonar in which only a single MIDI track is present, one which contains musical note data. Next:
 
From the Console View, the bottom selection -- call it the port I guess -- reads Midisport 2x2 Out USB. Up at the Channel drop down, I select which channel I want, which are referred to as Roland GR-33 channels at that point, then I select the GR-33 bank (only two are possible -- User and Preset), and finally the patch I want.
 
Back to the ports for a moment, since I can't select an Output on the left side, other than the Midisport, and since over on the right side of the Console View, my only output option is a panel that has a set of sliders with my sound card's Outs at the bottom, it appears that my Midisport is supposed to be communicating directly with my sound card for volume production.
 
I don't know how important this might be but I mention it because during playback, while the volume traces are jumping happily about on the GR-33's channel, there is nothing on the sound card's "channel." So it appears to me that there's a breakdown in communication somewhere between my Midisport and the main outs in Sonar. Wondering if just on the off chance that it might be a USB port issue, I've tried out my Midisport on three different USB ports so far. It hasn't made any difference.
 
Now, regarding some communication problems I'm also having between Sonar and my GR-33, when I select a patch in Sonar, it is not reflected on the GR-33's display panel. Well, sometimes, sporadically, it will be, but it is impossible to duplicate this occurrence when it does rarely occur, so I just attribute this behavior to having a ghost in the machine until a better explanation comes along. Usually the GR-33 just stays stuck on the default patch. And almost always I'm not getting any sound from the GR-33. Yet, despite the GR-33 and Sonar not being able to communicate the patch data, the GR-33's track in the console view shows volume traces jumping all over.  Which just seems strange to me. Why would I be seeing the volume traces for the GR-33 but not the correct patches on the GR-33 or in Sonar and why can't I adjust them through Sonar for the GR-33?  All these things used to work fine. And on a couple of brief occasions since this mess began I've managed to get the two to talk to each other again. But with no consistency.
 
Are these two seemingly separate situations related? I think so, but I'm not really sure yet how they might be.
 
 
#1

10 Replies Related Threads

    mwmcbroom
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/27 15:10:09 (permalink)
    I've now tried to get my GR-33 to work with Reaper and I'm running into the same issues. No sound, that is.
     
    So I''m beginning to suspect the GR-33 itself and that it's taken a header off the high board into an empty pool . . . so to speak. Dang it. Anybody here use Jam Origin's Midi Guitar soft synth?
    #2
    scook
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/27 15:21:31 (permalink)
    There are several threads about Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar. Here are a couple of them -
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3706778
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3580344
     
    search Google for
    site:forum.cakewalk.com MIDI Guitar
    or
    site:forum.cakewalk.com Jam Origin
    #3
    ChristopherM
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/30 11:02:41 (permalink)
    Have you checked the MIDI set-up of the GR-33 itself? From memory, it is quite particular about how MIDI channels are assigned. Before junking it, I'd be inclined to go through the manual, following the set-up process meticulously. Having done that, I'd make sure that all MIDI-related parameters are set to match in SONAR.
     
    You said that the failure happened suddenly, which makes me wonder whether the internal battery that backs-up the setup in the GR-33 is empty (in which case, the GR-33 presumably reverts to its default settings every time you switch it off). The GR-33 should display a message on power-up that tells you that the battery is low. I presume it's a coin-cell that you might be able to swap relatively easy, but I don't have a GR-33, so I'm guessing.
     
    Having written this, I realise that logic requires you to follow paragraph 2 before 1 
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    msmcleod
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/30 11:14:29 (permalink)
    I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I've had to ditch my MidiSport 2x2 as since the 1803 Windows Update, it was constantly disconnecting itself within CbB.
     
    Windows "claims" it's still connected, but none of the midi messages get to/from any software.
     
    I'm now using a MidiTech MidiFace 8x8 without issues.
     

    Mark McLeod
    Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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    Mesh
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/30 16:36:24 (permalink)
    scook
    There are several threads about Jam Origin's MIDI Guitar. Here are a couple of them -
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3706778
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3580344
     
    search Google for
    site:forum.cakewalk.com MIDI Guitar
    or
    site:forum.cakewalk.com Jam Origin


    This is the way to go for all your guitar/synth needs and all within a VST (no hardware needed). :))
     
    Some very good info here as well: http://forum.cakewalk.com/Jam-Origin-MIDI-Guitar-2-possible-bug-SOLVED-m3648470.aspx

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    tlw
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/30 16:59:50 (permalink)
    Are you certain the button on the Midisport is in the correct position for working with USB?

    I’ve an Anniversary model and that button’s caught me out a few times.

    I have to say I’ve never found it reliable with Windows though, it has a tendencey to scramble MIDI information, especially sysex - it works fine on Macs however. Though if yours was working properly and now suddenly isn’t I doubt that’s the problem.

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    #7
    msmcleod
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/30 19:33:32 (permalink)
    tlw
    Are you certain the button on the Midisport is in the correct position for working with USB?

    I’ve an Anniversary model and that button’s caught me out a few times.

    I have to say I’ve never found it reliable with Windows though, it has a tendencey to scramble MIDI information, especially sysex - it works fine on Macs however. Though if yours was working properly and now suddenly isn’t I doubt that’s the problem.



    No it's not the button. I does work for a few minutes, then Cakewalk says it's gone away and it's a pain for it to recognise it again.
     
    In hindsight, I think it could have been clashing with my MidiSport 8x8 as they're basically using the same driver, but weirdly even switching my MidiSport 8x8 off (i.e. booting up with it off) didn't make a difference - the 2x2 still kept disconnecting. It never did this before I upgraded to 1803.
     
    I tried the 2x2 on a different machine, and it seemed to be stable, but it wasn't being thrashed the way it was in the studio. It was used as my Mackie MCU / XT interface, so it was getting all the automation info as well as constant timecode updates.
     
    The MidiSport 8x8 runs fine now with my new MidiTech 8x8. 
     
     

    Mark McLeod
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    #8
    mwmcbroom
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/31 06:40:51 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the responses, guys, I'll try to respond to them in chronological order.
     
    Scook, thanks for the links. Years ago, I tried an early version of MIDI Guitar. I thought it had possibilities, but it was still pretty rough. I just d/l'd the latest version and it is vastly improved. I'm able to make it work quite well with my playing style, where I can be precise when I want to. My biggest problem with it is it still has more latency than I care for. Honestly, I haven't checked yet to see if this is adjustable, so it might not be an issue. But right now, I'd guess it's at somewhere around 15 to 20 ms, which is just enough lag to be annoying. Still, considering the power of this piece of software, the latency is probably something I can get used to . . .  maybe.
     
    Christopher, when I finally got serious about  getting to the bottom of the problem, first thing I did was clean all the connections, then I studied everything in the manual pertaining to MIDI operation -- such that there was. There were a few things I didn't understand and no explanations were offered, so I just set my GR-33 the way they showed in the manual, figuring they were showing a default condition. I wish this were the problem, but honestly, I don't know what it would be. I've set things such that they make sense to me and/or follow what the manual shows. Oh, and I've never operated the GR-33 with one channel per string. I've always preferred having it operate the same as any other polyphonic MIDI synth. I had always gotten good results.
     
    Mark, do you happen to know when the Windows 1803 update was? Just wondering if it might coincide with the problems I'm having. If it is indeed a compatibility issue, then I'll have to look at another method. I don't recall which forum it was, but one fellow mentioned a Roland MIDI to USB adapter that he claimed worked very well, so I guess that's one avenue I might should seriously thing about if it is indeed a compatibility issue. I did d/l the latest driver from M-Audio. Don't recall the date anymore, but it wasn't ancient.
     
    tlw and Mark, no it isn't the button. That's one of the first things I checked. Sonar sees the Midisport just fine in the Drivers window, both A and B channels -- so there's no problem, far as that goes. In fact, Sonar defaults to the Midisport whenever I load a new file. I'm always having to go into each track and select something else -- typically TTS-1. Except, of course, when I'm actually trying to get my GR-33 to work.
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    msmcleod
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/07/31 08:30:33 (permalink)
    mwmcbroom
     Mark, do you happen to know when the Windows 1803 update was? Just wondering if it might coincide with the problems I'm having. If it is indeed a compatibility issue, then I'll have to look at another method. I don't recall which forum it was, but one fellow mentioned a Roland MIDI to USB adapter that he claimed worked very well, so I guess that's one avenue I might should seriously thing about if it is indeed a compatibility issue. I did d/l the latest driver from M-Audio. Don't recall the date anymore, but it wasn't ancient.
     



    The 1803 update was released at the beginning of April 2018.
     
    Just as an aside, I've got a Roland GI-10 which has the same GK-2a to MIDI converter as the GR-33  (the GI-20 shares the same, superior MIDI converter as the GR-55).
     
    I personally found MIDI Guitar to equal if not surpass the tracking of my GK-2a / GI-10, especially on the lower notes. This did however require me to set my ASIO buffer size on my Scarlett 6i6 to the lowest possible setting.
     
    In saying that, guitar to MIDI isn't something I do much; my GK2-a is mainly used with my VG88.
     
    When I do need guitar to MIDI, I find that using SONAR/CbB's Audio to MIDI conversion via Melodyne gives far more satisfactory results, though I find I need to mess around with the EQ & volume to get the best results. I'm also using Melodyne Editor, which deals with polyphonic conversion, so this may not be an option if you're running essentials.
     

    Mark McLeod
    Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
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    mwmcbroom
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    Re: My Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth will no longer reliably communicate with Sonar 2018/08/03 15:20:49 (permalink)
    Hmmm . . . my troubles may  coincide with the April date. When the issue first cropped up, I tried various things, none of which worked, and gave up in disgust. The GR-33 sat there for quite a while before I gave it another try. So it might have been April.
     
    Are you having any MIDI issues with your GI-10? Fortunately (I guess), the GR-33 works just fine in audio, so I can still record with it and play live with it. But what I like so much about MIDI is that I can get in there and edit all the little oopses and slips, and even add to the track. This to me is the true power of analog to MIDI, such as the GR-33 does. I think I'm gonna order one of those Roland adapters as a last resort. I've run out of all other options. It would be a relief it it were the Midisport and not the GR-33. But it will unfortunately mean that the Midisports I own will be piles of useless junk until M-Audio comes up with new drivers -- if ever.
     
    I'm glad to read about your successes with MIDI Guitar. I have an old M-Audio Delta 66 card (4 in 4 out audio, 2 in 2 out SPDF) that has always been extremely fast. I've been able to get latency down to as low as 6ms, using the good ASIO drivers. Right now, for some reason, ASIO4All is loading its drivers for my card before the card can load its own ASIO drivers. Dunno if I care much for that. I've discovered in the past that ASIO4All likes to latch onto things, and then not let go. There have been times I've uninstalled it for that sort of behavior. Only reason why it's installed right now is I was trying out an Alesis iO2 Express interface to see if I could get the GR-33 to work with it (it has MIDI ports). But nope. Had to install ASIO4All to get it to run, and I haven't bothered with uninstalling it (yet).
     
    My system has Melodyne installed as part of the Sonar Installation, but I've never known what it was for, so I haven't done anything with it. Now, audio to MIDI conversion is definitely something I can use. And I play polyphonically when I play guitar, so I guess I'd need to use the editor. Besides there are some old standard recordings I'd like to see if I could convert to MIDI. So I'll have to give it a look-see. But as far as playing back some tunes I've written that have GR-33 MIDI parts, that might be beyond its capabilities?
     
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